The Yellow Submarine goes Nuclear
07-23-2016, 05:35 PM
#126
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
25th January 2011 22:43
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Build Update:
Engine Repairs - Got a call from the shop that has my head (the old one with bent valves).. 6 of 8 valves aren't sealing properly and show heating on the seat side. Lovely. So, based on that, I pulled the other head and both are going to be checked and repaired. Another $300-400 pissed away on my "13k mile LS2". Hope to have them back Friday. Now I need to buy another head gasket, and more head bolts. Considering an ARP set since it is all apart.
Parts Ordered - Ordered a replacement collar for Ground-Control.. $18 + $5 shipping. They said the biggest issue with those is people over-tighten them (guilty!). Basically just tighten the set screw turn the collar won't move, don't bottom it out like I did. So that will get that fixed up. I still need to thread-chase the two front struts, the threads are a little mucked up.
Parts Arrived - My leather shift boot arrived from across the pond, reeeaaaalll (SNIFF SNIFF) leather! Looks awesome, stiching is very nice, and the price was wicked.. $16.97 shipped. I'll get a photo up eventually.
Fan Shroud - So, got a reply.. apparently a friend is actually the guy that makes those, and he told me to "stop making excuses and finish the swap"..
The finish is a DA used to give them all a consistent(ly ugly) finish. 
I still think it is going to get painted.
________________________________________
Build Update:
Engine Repairs - Got a call from the shop that has my head (the old one with bent valves).. 6 of 8 valves aren't sealing properly and show heating on the seat side. Lovely. So, based on that, I pulled the other head and both are going to be checked and repaired. Another $300-400 pissed away on my "13k mile LS2". Hope to have them back Friday. Now I need to buy another head gasket, and more head bolts. Considering an ARP set since it is all apart.
Parts Ordered - Ordered a replacement collar for Ground-Control.. $18 + $5 shipping. They said the biggest issue with those is people over-tighten them (guilty!). Basically just tighten the set screw turn the collar won't move, don't bottom it out like I did. So that will get that fixed up. I still need to thread-chase the two front struts, the threads are a little mucked up.
Parts Arrived - My leather shift boot arrived from across the pond, reeeaaaalll (SNIFF SNIFF) leather! Looks awesome, stiching is very nice, and the price was wicked.. $16.97 shipped. I'll get a photo up eventually.
Fan Shroud - So, got a reply.. apparently a friend is actually the guy that makes those, and he told me to "stop making excuses and finish the swap"..
The finish is a DA used to give them all a consistent(ly ugly) finish. I still think it is going to get painted.
07-23-2016, 05:36 PM
#127
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
I'm thinking of a word....
26th January 2011 10:00
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Soooo, going to call the yard again, and talk (hopefully) to the boss. Purposeful or not, I paid for a 13k mile motor, and got something with maybe 35-40k on it with 2 bent valves hidden under a new valve cover, plus 6 of 8 valves on that head not sealing and a a busted coiland who knows what else I have not even found yet.
I'm PISSED. So, I want satisfaction, dammit!
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Soooo, going to call the yard again, and talk (hopefully) to the boss. Purposeful or not, I paid for a 13k mile motor, and got something with maybe 35-40k on it with 2 bent valves hidden under a new valve cover, plus 6 of 8 valves on that head not sealing and a a busted coiland who knows what else I have not even found yet.
I'm PISSED. So, I want satisfaction, dammit!
07-23-2016, 05:37 PM
#128
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
26th January 2011 10:45
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Just got off the phone, the yard has said (tho I've heard it before) they will make right on it quickly.. so we shall see. I should have my estimate today to send over to them.
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Just got off the phone, the yard has said (tho I've heard it before) they will make right on it quickly.. so we shall see. I should have my estimate today to send over to them.
07-23-2016, 05:38 PM
#129
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
26th January 2011 10:51
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Today's NOOB Advice:
CARFAX! - You hear people bitch about it, but it is better than nothing. Get the VIN of the pullout you are considering buying and pay the $$ to check it.. had I done that, I would have known this motor has probably triple the miles I thought. $40 on a $5500 pullout is mere pocket change for the hassle. And ask for PHOTOS of the wreck, too. This is probably the single largest cost item you are buying, and it is worth the extra verification, believe me!
I am 2 days from the 90 day warranty expiring, folks.. and the engine is in pieces and parts are at a shop being repaired and I suspect my agony is not yet over.
CARFAX!
AAARRRGGGG!!!!!!!!
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Today's NOOB Advice:
CARFAX! - You hear people bitch about it, but it is better than nothing. Get the VIN of the pullout you are considering buying and pay the $$ to check it.. had I done that, I would have known this motor has probably triple the miles I thought. $40 on a $5500 pullout is mere pocket change for the hassle. And ask for PHOTOS of the wreck, too. This is probably the single largest cost item you are buying, and it is worth the extra verification, believe me!
I am 2 days from the 90 day warranty expiring, folks.. and the engine is in pieces and parts are at a shop being repaired and I suspect my agony is not yet over.
CARFAX!
AAARRRGGGG!!!!!!!!
07-23-2016, 05:42 PM
#130
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
26th January 2011 15:03
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Depends on what you intend to do.
Pullout = motor, tranny, clutch, all wiring, all accessories, engine PCM, etc. In theory every thing you need to swap it and all parts work together.
If you intend to mix-n-match engine/tranny, or you want to do a carb instead of FI.. maybe crate is better.
The pullout is nice, but you have to know exactly what you are getting and what other parts you may need. For example, my "cheap" GTO LS2 needed the front accessories swapped ($1000), and the tranny shifter swapped ($200). Had I bought a CTS-V motor, the accessories would have been right but the CTS-V tranny won't work. The F-Body or Vette tranny is right... but you can 't get a LS2 from an F-body (never made that way) and the Vette LS2 had the goofy tranny setup I think (gearbox in the back). So there is a bit of knowledge (which I freely admit I did NOT have when I clicked "BuyItNow") required to know what pieces will work and not work and what can be made to work and how. See notes in the image below for some of that knowledge since gleaned out.
The idea is that the pullout gives you everything you need, and saves 100 trips to a junkyard to find the plug you are missing, the bracket that is missing, the blah blah that you don't have. I think that is sound. But you need the RIGHT pullout to do that.
I think it is safe to say the LS2 is NOT the preferred motor in a Miata for the reasons above. There is not a complete LS2 pullout (that I know off, I could be wrong) that will go in without major farting around. That's likely why you find the LS1 (Plenty of F-body/Vette setups that drop in) and LS3 (Vette) used most often.. you have to do less customizing and they are cheaper (at least the LS1 pullouts are but the LS1 is 305-350hp, whereas my LS2 is 400hp out of the box). Here is something that may (or may not) be helpful.. sorta:
This shows (from my own research, so take with some salt) what came in what, and some notes regarding fit issues or whatever that I found. Not all inclusive by any stretch (for example I am sure the SSR has fit issues on the tranny or somemthing but I never researched it because I never saw a pullouts from the SSR). Green is what I bought.
But the 5.7 wasn't enough for me, I wanted a true 6.0L LS2, so I am willing to work to get it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by roadster-nh (Post 4972522)
I've been lurking on this thread because I'm fascinated by the V8 conversions. Wallyman -- your engine woes did get me wondering though (pardon the ignorance here)... why do most folks opt for a pull-out instead of a crate motor? Is the the cost difference that much?? Is it because the the pull-outs typically come with the accessories?
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Originally Posted by roadster-nh (Post 4972522)
I've been lurking on this thread because I'm fascinated by the V8 conversions. Wallyman -- your engine woes did get me wondering though (pardon the ignorance here)... why do most folks opt for a pull-out instead of a crate motor? Is the the cost difference that much?? Is it because the the pull-outs typically come with the accessories?
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Pullout = motor, tranny, clutch, all wiring, all accessories, engine PCM, etc. In theory every thing you need to swap it and all parts work together.
If you intend to mix-n-match engine/tranny, or you want to do a carb instead of FI.. maybe crate is better.
The pullout is nice, but you have to know exactly what you are getting and what other parts you may need. For example, my "cheap" GTO LS2 needed the front accessories swapped ($1000), and the tranny shifter swapped ($200). Had I bought a CTS-V motor, the accessories would have been right but the CTS-V tranny won't work. The F-Body or Vette tranny is right... but you can 't get a LS2 from an F-body (never made that way) and the Vette LS2 had the goofy tranny setup I think (gearbox in the back). So there is a bit of knowledge (which I freely admit I did NOT have when I clicked "BuyItNow") required to know what pieces will work and not work and what can be made to work and how. See notes in the image below for some of that knowledge since gleaned out.
The idea is that the pullout gives you everything you need, and saves 100 trips to a junkyard to find the plug you are missing, the bracket that is missing, the blah blah that you don't have. I think that is sound. But you need the RIGHT pullout to do that.
I think it is safe to say the LS2 is NOT the preferred motor in a Miata for the reasons above. There is not a complete LS2 pullout (that I know off, I could be wrong) that will go in without major farting around. That's likely why you find the LS1 (Plenty of F-body/Vette setups that drop in) and LS3 (Vette) used most often.. you have to do less customizing and they are cheaper (at least the LS1 pullouts are but the LS1 is 305-350hp, whereas my LS2 is 400hp out of the box). Here is something that may (or may not) be helpful.. sorta:
This shows (from my own research, so take with some salt) what came in what, and some notes regarding fit issues or whatever that I found. Not all inclusive by any stretch (for example I am sure the SSR has fit issues on the tranny or somemthing but I never researched it because I never saw a pullouts from the SSR). Green is what I bought.
But the 5.7 wasn't enough for me, I wanted a true 6.0L LS2, so I am willing to work to get it.
07-23-2016, 05:46 PM
#131
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
Wallyman 27th January 2011 10:10
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________________________________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keith (Post 4973616)
Wally's experience is illustrating very nicely why we only use crate motors in conversions at FM. If you get the engine and PCM from GM, you get a wiring harness that was designed for a swap with everything nicely labeled. The engine is (obviously) brand new and even has a warranty. Of course, as a shop doing high-end conversions for customers, we especially don't want the hassle of used parts.
We built Elvis with a pull-out motor, and recently replaced that one with a new crate engine. It's interesting, we had a number of failures on that motor but every single one was due to an "improved" aftermarket part failing. I had a CNC-ported head let go at Laguna Seca when the paper-thin wall between the modified intake port and the water jacket let go. An aftermarket rocker arm broke as I was pootling along the street at 30 mph. Shifters, clutches - every time we try an aftermarket part on the V8s, we learn that we should have stayed with stock
I used a pull-out for my MG project, though. It got me all the parts (engine, PCM, transmission, differential) for a good price. But I bought a complete, running car and drove it for a while first to make sure my drivetrain was good. It let me identify a bad coolant sensor, for example, so I didn't have to wonder if it was the part or my wiring that was bad. It was also less expensive of course, but meant more labor as I had to tear apart the Camaro.
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Originally Posted by Keith (Post 4973616)
Wally's experience is illustrating very nicely why we only use crate motors in conversions at FM. If you get the engine and PCM from GM, you get a wiring harness that was designed for a swap with everything nicely labeled. The engine is (obviously) brand new and even has a warranty. Of course, as a shop doing high-end conversions for customers, we especially don't want the hassle of used parts.
We built Elvis with a pull-out motor, and recently replaced that one with a new crate engine. It's interesting, we had a number of failures on that motor but every single one was due to an "improved" aftermarket part failing. I had a CNC-ported head let go at Laguna Seca when the paper-thin wall between the modified intake port and the water jacket let go. An aftermarket rocker arm broke as I was pootling along the street at 30 mph. Shifters, clutches - every time we try an aftermarket part on the V8s, we learn that we should have stayed with stock
I used a pull-out for my MG project, though. It got me all the parts (engine, PCM, transmission, differential) for a good price. But I bought a complete, running car and drove it for a while first to make sure my drivetrain was good. It let me identify a bad coolant sensor, for example, so I didn't have to wonder if it was the part or my wiring that was bad. It was also less expensive of course, but meant more labor as I had to tear apart the Camaro.
07-23-2016, 05:47 PM
#132
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
27th January 2011 10:57
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Build update:
Cam Swap - Got a call from the machinist last night, the Comp 928 springs I bought with the Vengeance VRX4 cam are testing out 40 pounds heavy.. somewhere around 420-425 instead of the 383 open that they should. Wonderful. Sooooooo, more chasing needed to figure out what needs to be done. Either the springs are wrong in the box, they are naturally heavy, or... something. Got a call into Ron @ Vengeance to pick his brain. Hoping it's a non-issue but my shop was concerned these are quite heavy for the cam I bought.
Motor Issues - Junkyard refunded the labor and material cost for the valve work needed.. so that's good. Of course, they sent Paypal payment instead of a refund, so I have to pay fees.. idiots.
Parts Bought - Since both heads are off now, decided to put ARP bolts in. NIB ARP 134-3610 head bolts off eBay, $72.75 shipped. Should have Friday/Monday.
Parts Shipped - All the CAI stuff shipped (Thanks Burg!)
Parts Arrived - New Robbins soft top arrived.
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Build update:
Cam Swap - Got a call from the machinist last night, the Comp 928 springs I bought with the Vengeance VRX4 cam are testing out 40 pounds heavy.. somewhere around 420-425 instead of the 383 open that they should. Wonderful. Sooooooo, more chasing needed to figure out what needs to be done. Either the springs are wrong in the box, they are naturally heavy, or... something. Got a call into Ron @ Vengeance to pick his brain. Hoping it's a non-issue but my shop was concerned these are quite heavy for the cam I bought.
Motor Issues - Junkyard refunded the labor and material cost for the valve work needed.. so that's good. Of course, they sent Paypal payment instead of a refund, so I have to pay fees.. idiots.
Parts Bought - Since both heads are off now, decided to put ARP bolts in. NIB ARP 134-3610 head bolts off eBay, $72.75 shipped. Should have Friday/Monday.
Parts Shipped - All the CAI stuff shipped (Thanks Burg!)
Parts Arrived - New Robbins soft top arrived.
07-23-2016, 05:49 PM
#133
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
27th January 2011 12:04
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Wise? Maybe. Probably would be wise to completely tear it down. But the end of the rope has been reached.. so not doing it.
Once I do that, well.. might as well take it in to the shop, have them do a little of this, a little of that.. and OHHH.. let's put some forged pistons, new rods... it gets totally out of control. I've successfully resisted having a port-n-polish done on the heads, and will continue to resist the urge of "while I'm in there".
If it grenades, I guess it grenades. There isn't any indication that there will be issues with the bearings, but I could be dead wrong.
This will be the post you guys can refer to later if it all goes to hell in 200 miles.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcdave71 (Post 4974044)
Since you have it torn down this far would it be wise to also pop a main cap or two and maybe a couple rods to be 100% on checking everything? That's about all that's left that could be a prob correct?
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Originally Posted by mcdave71 (Post 4974044)
Since you have it torn down this far would it be wise to also pop a main cap or two and maybe a couple rods to be 100% on checking everything? That's about all that's left that could be a prob correct?
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Once I do that, well.. might as well take it in to the shop, have them do a little of this, a little of that.. and OHHH.. let's put some forged pistons, new rods... it gets totally out of control. I've successfully resisted having a port-n-polish done on the heads, and will continue to resist the urge of "while I'm in there".
If it grenades, I guess it grenades. There isn't any indication that there will be issues with the bearings, but I could be dead wrong.
This will be the post you guys can refer to later if it all goes to hell in 200 miles.
07-23-2016, 05:58 PM
#134
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
28th January 2011 17:17
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Build Update:
Parts Arrival - Some photos... the aforementioned Leather Boot (scratch and sniff for real leather smell!):
And the aforementioned Robbins top:
I seem to be working in reverse.. the motor is becoming more DISassembled!
The heads are back from the machine shop.. the pile of old parts:
The heads are looking snazzy:
Looking good with the Comp 928 springs!
Still need to clean up the remaining carbon with a brass brush.
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Build Update:
Parts Arrival - Some photos... the aforementioned Leather Boot (scratch and sniff for real leather smell!):
And the aforementioned Robbins top:
I seem to be working in reverse.. the motor is becoming more DISassembled!
The heads are back from the machine shop.. the pile of old parts:
The heads are looking snazzy:
Looking good with the Comp 928 springs!
Still need to clean up the remaining carbon with a brass brush.
07-23-2016, 06:00 PM
#135
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
28th January 2011 17:38
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The white smears are the residue from the cleaner, not damage of any sort. They shaved 0.002 off the heads to clean up the head gasket mating surface. The set up the springs for me as well, Comp 26926-16. Specs:
Seat Load
129lb @ 1.835" (per box)
150lb @ 1.835" (actual)
Open Load
470lb @ 1.160" (per box)
510lb @ 1.160" (actual)
Spring Rate
505 lb/in (per box)
@ 590 lift (VRX4 cam)
424lb (per box)
446lb (actual)
Coil Bind
1.100"
The shop was mildly concerned that the rates were higher, but after a call to Vengeance (Thanks Ron & Kevin) [Kevin stated they have a lot of success with this cam and these springs without issue - "run it"] and another call over to the guys at Comp Cams [Stated that the springs will 'settle in' after a few heat cycles, and will drop down to the book/box rates] I forged ahead and the heads were built. A new head gasket was ordered so hopefully I can put the engine back together next weekend.
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The white smears are the residue from the cleaner, not damage of any sort. They shaved 0.002 off the heads to clean up the head gasket mating surface. The set up the springs for me as well, Comp 26926-16. Specs:
Seat Load
129lb @ 1.835" (per box)
150lb @ 1.835" (actual)
Open Load
470lb @ 1.160" (per box)
510lb @ 1.160" (actual)
Spring Rate
505 lb/in (per box)
@ 590 lift (VRX4 cam)
424lb (per box)
446lb (actual)
Coil Bind
1.100"
The shop was mildly concerned that the rates were higher, but after a call to Vengeance (Thanks Ron & Kevin) [Kevin stated they have a lot of success with this cam and these springs without issue - "run it"] and another call over to the guys at Comp Cams [Stated that the springs will 'settle in' after a few heat cycles, and will drop down to the book/box rates] I forged ahead and the heads were built. A new head gasket was ordered so hopefully I can put the engine back together next weekend.
07-23-2016, 06:01 PM
#136
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
31st January 2011 11:15
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Great stuff, thanks Tyrod!!
Build Update:
Parts Ordered - Ordered up my BLING item.. still a secret, tho!
Parts Arrival - ARP head bolts came in.. look good. Down to just a couple items outstanding (tho I keep ordering more, it seems).
Hope to assemble the complete rear end evenings this week (subframe, diffy, a-arms, hubs, axles, coilovers, sway) and get that mounted back under the car. That will make some room for engine assembly and painting for this coming weekend if all goes well. The main floor bathroom remodel has been a time-sucker and I am this ->
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tyrod (Post 4977627)
General spring axium: A spring will lose 10% of it's spring rate in it's first 1% of life then the spring rate will remain relatively constant until failure or retirement.
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Originally Posted by Tyrod (Post 4977627)
General spring axium: A spring will lose 10% of it's spring rate in it's first 1% of life then the spring rate will remain relatively constant until failure or retirement.
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Build Update:
Parts Ordered - Ordered up my BLING item.. still a secret, tho!
Parts Arrival - ARP head bolts came in.. look good. Down to just a couple items outstanding (tho I keep ordering more, it seems).
Hope to assemble the complete rear end evenings this week (subframe, diffy, a-arms, hubs, axles, coilovers, sway) and get that mounted back under the car. That will make some room for engine assembly and painting for this coming weekend if all goes well. The main floor bathroom remodel has been a time-sucker and I am this ->
07-23-2016, 06:04 PM
#137
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
I need to set my sights a little higher..
31st January 2011 23:23
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Build Update:
Rear Assembly - Built the rear end. Mounted the Getrag in the subframe, A-arms back in, hubs with new bearings and seals, rear sway, new beefy axles... all back together. Just need to torque stuff and it's good to go!
Painted Stuff - Second coat on the front hubs, front strut mounts and front baby teeth.
Research - Need to figure out how to mount the getrag vent. Pretty sure I read somewhere that the vent is mounted remotely, but I can't seem to dig up the info. If someone has a lead on how FM/V8R typically does it, please point me in the right direction!
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Build Update:
Rear Assembly - Built the rear end. Mounted the Getrag in the subframe, A-arms back in, hubs with new bearings and seals, rear sway, new beefy axles... all back together. Just need to torque stuff and it's good to go!
Painted Stuff - Second coat on the front hubs, front strut mounts and front baby teeth.
Research - Need to figure out how to mount the getrag vent. Pretty sure I read somewhere that the vent is mounted remotely, but I can't seem to dig up the info. If someone has a lead on how FM/V8R typically does it, please point me in the right direction!
07-23-2016, 06:05 PM
#138
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
1st February 2011 21:42
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Mine is opposite (If you are looking at it from the fan boss side, left is driver's side). One at bottom under the fill tube is a hex, one under lower hose is sealed. Top (pointing straight up) above upper hose is open and threaded, I assume for steam line?
Build Update:
Since we are getting "a blizzard" (yeah, whatever) I'm working on the engine.. cleaned all the pistons, and the gasket surface.. removed the carbon rings at the top of the cylinders as well. I sprayed the pistons down with PB Blaster, softened the carbon up so I could scrape lightly with a razor blade and it came right off. Cleaned it all up and taped paper over the cylinders to keep crap out.
Unwrapped the front hubs, my tape screwed up the paint on the brake shields, so that is drying with a new coat right now. Baby teeth and front strut tops are done.
Second head gasket came in today, also.
Still working, test fitting the rad shroud on the rad for Mike who had some questions on it..
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gpangrac (Post 4977473)
Wally: my kit arrived last Tuesday. I'm leaving the shroud as is. Did your radiator include a stopcock for the drain? Mine has a hex head in the pax side, but the drivers side is open. I meant to call FM, but got sidetracked at work & forgot.
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Originally Posted by gpangrac (Post 4977473)
Wally: my kit arrived last Tuesday. I'm leaving the shroud as is. Did your radiator include a stopcock for the drain? Mine has a hex head in the pax side, but the drivers side is open. I meant to call FM, but got sidetracked at work & forgot.
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Build Update:
Since we are getting "a blizzard" (yeah, whatever) I'm working on the engine.. cleaned all the pistons, and the gasket surface.. removed the carbon rings at the top of the cylinders as well. I sprayed the pistons down with PB Blaster, softened the carbon up so I could scrape lightly with a razor blade and it came right off. Cleaned it all up and taped paper over the cylinders to keep crap out.
Unwrapped the front hubs, my tape screwed up the paint on the brake shields, so that is drying with a new coat right now. Baby teeth and front strut tops are done.
Second head gasket came in today, also.
Still working, test fitting the rad shroud on the rad for Mike who had some questions on it..
07-23-2016, 06:07 PM
#139
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
1st February 2011 23:56
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Build Update:
Engine Cleaning - PB Blaster, a razor blade and brass brush yields some nice results.
The motor all covered up.. for now.
Radiator Shroud - Primed and painted 'aluminum'.. first coat.
Front Hubs - Black is done, "chrome" needs a clear coat to finish it up.
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Build Update:
Engine Cleaning - PB Blaster, a razor blade and brass brush yields some nice results.
The motor all covered up.. for now.
Radiator Shroud - Primed and painted 'aluminum'.. first coat.
Front Hubs - Black is done, "chrome" needs a clear coat to finish it up.
07-23-2016, 06:09 PM
#140
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
4th February 2011 20:07
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Build Update:
Engine Reassembly - FINALLY.. putting it back together. Very happy to see it returning to assembled. 27 days after I started the swap, the new cam is IN. Heads are on, and torqued. Will put pushrods and rockers back on tomorrow.
Rear Subframe - Torqued some of the bolts, will finish up when it gets mounted int he car hopefully tomorrow/Sunday.
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Build Update:
Engine Reassembly - FINALLY.. putting it back together. Very happy to see it returning to assembled. 27 days after I started the swap, the new cam is IN. Heads are on, and torqued. Will put pushrods and rockers back on tomorrow.
Rear Subframe - Torqued some of the bolts, will finish up when it gets mounted int he car hopefully tomorrow/Sunday.
07-23-2016, 06:12 PM
#141
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
4th February 2011 23:18
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More detail on the Cam Install for any noobs looking for it, I used the attached guide.
Torque sequence on the head (since I had the heads off), scroll down and look for the drawing:
LS1Howto.com
That was it. The Cam Install guide was 95% spot-on and had almost all the info needed outside of the fact I had the heads off as well and needed the torque sequence. The only comments I have:
1 - The cam retainer was held in by 4 torx bolts, not 10mm head bolts.
2 - 1/4 dowel is small if you use that method to secure the lifters, I would go up to 5/16 size. I ended up removing the lifters since the heads were off, was easier.
3 - Couldn't remove the cam timing gear without removing the oil pump (not enough slack in the timing chain), so that came off as well. Given it is just 4 bolts and it makes it dirt simple to align the timing marks, I think it is a no brainer to pop off.
Otherwise, my first cam swap and it went "smooth as buttah", as my girl would say. :thumbs:
________________________________________
More detail on the Cam Install for any noobs looking for it, I used the attached guide.
Torque sequence on the head (since I had the heads off), scroll down and look for the drawing:
LS1Howto.com
That was it. The Cam Install guide was 95% spot-on and had almost all the info needed outside of the fact I had the heads off as well and needed the torque sequence. The only comments I have:
1 - The cam retainer was held in by 4 torx bolts, not 10mm head bolts.
2 - 1/4 dowel is small if you use that method to secure the lifters, I would go up to 5/16 size. I ended up removing the lifters since the heads were off, was easier.
3 - Couldn't remove the cam timing gear without removing the oil pump (not enough slack in the timing chain), so that came off as well. Given it is just 4 bolts and it makes it dirt simple to align the timing marks, I think it is a no brainer to pop off.
Otherwise, my first cam swap and it went "smooth as buttah", as my girl would say. :thumbs:
07-23-2016, 06:15 PM
#142
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
4th February 2011 23:45
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Some photos...
Timing cover removed, stock cam still installed.
Timing alignment marks, with oil pump installed (very hard to see).
Oil pump and cam gear bolts removed (note lack of slack on chain)
Timing set removed, water pump bolts in end of cam as handles.
Cam retainer plate removed.
Stock LS2 cam (top) and new VRX4 cam (bottom).
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Some photos...
Timing cover removed, stock cam still installed.
Timing alignment marks, with oil pump installed (very hard to see).
Oil pump and cam gear bolts removed (note lack of slack on chain)
Timing set removed, water pump bolts in end of cam as handles.
Cam retainer plate removed.
Stock LS2 cam (top) and new VRX4 cam (bottom).
07-23-2016, 06:17 PM
#143
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
4th February 2011 23:49
________________________________________
All lifters removed (I just set them next to their respective holes rather than take them out of the engine completely).
New cam installed.
Timing set reinstalled, dot to dot with ARP bolts.
Oil pump and timing covers reinstalled, both heads installed and torqued to spec using ARP head bolts. Valve covers are just set on to keep crap out until I put the rockers and pushrods back in (tomorrow).
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All lifters removed (I just set them next to their respective holes rather than take them out of the engine completely).
New cam installed.
Timing set reinstalled, dot to dot with ARP bolts.
Oil pump and timing covers reinstalled, both heads installed and torqued to spec using ARP head bolts. Valve covers are just set on to keep crap out until I put the rockers and pushrods back in (tomorrow).
07-23-2016, 06:21 PM
#144
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
5th February 2011 18:01
________________________________________
Build Update:
Taking a dinner break.. some progress to report!
Started the day by cleaning the garage.. a dirty workspace is an unhappy one. I have before and after photos but, sadly, it doesn't look like it changed. Sooooo... I'll spare you all. Managed to consolidate a bunch of parts into less boxes, picked up all the tools, etc.
Rear Assembly - Finished up the vent tube. Tapped the Getrag with a 1/4" NPT tap, and used some modified 1/2" conduit one hole straps to secure the vent line. Vent cap ends up behind the axles, on the passenger side.
After that, put it up on a jack using a piece of plywood as a stability platform.
Rotated so it would roll under the car down the tranny tunnel:
Rotated into position, and lifted up to approximately the right spot:
________________________________________
Build Update:
Taking a dinner break.. some progress to report!
Started the day by cleaning the garage.. a dirty workspace is an unhappy one. I have before and after photos but, sadly, it doesn't look like it changed. Sooooo... I'll spare you all. Managed to consolidate a bunch of parts into less boxes, picked up all the tools, etc.
Rear Assembly - Finished up the vent tube. Tapped the Getrag with a 1/4" NPT tap, and used some modified 1/2" conduit one hole straps to secure the vent line. Vent cap ends up behind the axles, on the passenger side.
After that, put it up on a jack using a piece of plywood as a stability platform.
Rotated so it would roll under the car down the tranny tunnel:
Rotated into position, and lifted up to approximately the right spot:
07-23-2016, 06:23 PM
#145
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
5th February 2011 18:03
________________________________________
Lifted, and secured, and everything torqued to spec.
Note the vent tube, you can see it routing towards the passenger side. There was enough clearance on top of the cradle to allow it to route to the back.
Engine Assembly - Installed the stock rocker arms, torqued to spec.
Intake Painting - Cleaned the intake off, going to paint it black satin. Using the writeup found here: Do it your self paint job on Intake? - LS1TECH. Hope to start on that tonight.
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Lifted, and secured, and everything torqued to spec.
Note the vent tube, you can see it routing towards the passenger side. There was enough clearance on top of the cradle to allow it to route to the back.
Engine Assembly - Installed the stock rocker arms, torqued to spec.
Intake Painting - Cleaned the intake off, going to paint it black satin. Using the writeup found here: Do it your self paint job on Intake? - LS1TECH. Hope to start on that tonight.
07-23-2016, 07:37 PM
#146
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
5th February 2011 19:00
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Ahhhh.. yes, Trunions (or Trunnions). Discussed them with Vengeance when I bought the cam.. They said it was a "very low likelihood" failure so I opted not to do it at that time.
What were the conditions at time of the failures? I may rethink.. I would hate life if I killed that motor after all this screwing around.
Also, what year motors? Some interesting reading, specifically posts 3, 11, 23 by Eric D (reportedly a GM engineer). Apparently GM has reengineered the rockers, lastly in 2006 (and I've got a 06 GTO LS2). The original issue was noted as 1998-2002.
Comp Cams replacement trunnions - Corvette Forum
I'm a little skeptical that my 06 motor would be susceptible at this point.. more research is warranted. Any more info you have would be appreciated!
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Alas, finding failure posts on 2011 Camaros with heavy springs and cams. Sooooo.. indeterminate.
I've got to send out my PCM to Vengeance for the base program, I guess (dammit) I may have to them toss the Comp 13702-kit in too.. grrrrrr.. better safe than sorry, right?
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I've already sent a note off to Vengeance to get a price...
I'm putting too much money into this build to cheap out on a known (albeit slim chance) issue... $140 well spent, I am thinking.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 4989911)
Something I'll recommend doing to hopefully help save your engine- install new rocker arm bearings. Comp makes them and I think harland does also. Locally, I've seen 2 different LS's eat a set of needle bearings.
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Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 4989911)
Something I'll recommend doing to hopefully help save your engine- install new rocker arm bearings. Comp makes them and I think harland does also. Locally, I've seen 2 different LS's eat a set of needle bearings.
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What were the conditions at time of the failures? I may rethink.. I would hate life if I killed that motor after all this screwing around.
Also, what year motors? Some interesting reading, specifically posts 3, 11, 23 by Eric D (reportedly a GM engineer). Apparently GM has reengineered the rockers, lastly in 2006 (and I've got a 06 GTO LS2). The original issue was noted as 1998-2002.
Comp Cams replacement trunnions - Corvette Forum
I'm a little skeptical that my 06 motor would be susceptible at this point.. more research is warranted. Any more info you have would be appreciated!
________________________________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 4990008)
They were earlier LS1's (one was a 98, can't remember the other).
That would be a welcomed relief if they were fixed!
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Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 4990008)
They were earlier LS1's (one was a 98, can't remember the other).
That would be a welcomed relief if they were fixed!
________________________________________
I've got to send out my PCM to Vengeance for the base program, I guess (dammit) I may have to them toss the Comp 13702-kit in too.. grrrrrr.. better safe than sorry, right?
________________________________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by john j (Post 4990095)
I have to agree with Mike-been there and done that! Now would be the best time to make upgrades before possible part failures occur. The time spent later would be much more longer and flustrating along with it being more costly than the time spent and cost to repair and replace engine parts now.
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Originally Posted by john j (Post 4990095)
I have to agree with Mike-been there and done that! Now would be the best time to make upgrades before possible part failures occur. The time spent later would be much more longer and flustrating along with it being more costly than the time spent and cost to repair and replace engine parts now.
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I've already sent a note off to Vengeance to get a price...
I'm putting too much money into this build to cheap out on a known (albeit slim chance) issue... $140 well spent, I am thinking.
07-23-2016, 07:38 PM
#147
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
5th February 2011 22:37
________________________________________
Parts Ordered - Bought a new alarm/remote start, Refurbed Viper 5701. Long range 2 way, with all the usual features of a DEI product, should be good.
Fuel Rail - managed to order the wrong one, dang it. Bought a 10612 (LS1/LS6) instead of the 10614 (LS2). Sooo.. that sucks. Sent a note to the vendor I bought it from to see if I can swap it. If not, I'll put it up for sale and buy the right one. Also, looks like I need 45* fittings out of the back of the rail, the 90*s won't work like I thought.. going to wait until I have the new one in case it is longer or fits differently.
Intake Painting - Sanded the intake down, 120 then 150 grit. Going to paint the adhesion modifier and see how that goes. Time to stink up the basement!
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Parts Ordered - Bought a new alarm/remote start, Refurbed Viper 5701. Long range 2 way, with all the usual features of a DEI product, should be good.
Fuel Rail - managed to order the wrong one, dang it. Bought a 10612 (LS1/LS6) instead of the 10614 (LS2). Sooo.. that sucks. Sent a note to the vendor I bought it from to see if I can swap it. If not, I'll put it up for sale and buy the right one. Also, looks like I need 45* fittings out of the back of the rail, the 90*s won't work like I thought.. going to wait until I have the new one in case it is longer or fits differently.
Intake Painting - Sanded the intake down, 120 then 150 grit. Going to paint the adhesion modifier and see how that goes. Time to stink up the basement!
07-23-2016, 07:42 PM
#148
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
6th February 2011 14:04
________________________________________
Build Update: (Lunch Edition!)
I want to check a bunch of stuff off the to-do list (currently 237 items!) so I'm tackling the piddly stuff to see some progress and to get some crap out of my way in the garage.
Shifter Swap - Done! Converted GTO tranny to F-Body tranny.. easy swap, really, once you have the parts.
Starting point: GTO tranny with GTO shifter
1 - Remove the 4 star bit bolts
2 - Unbolt & Remove Stick, slide plastic cover off, exposing offset shifter
3 - Remove offset shifter (4 allen head bolts), exposing shift lever
4 - Drive out roll pin, swap shift lever cup to F-Body unit
5 - Comparison of the GTO shift lever (bottom) and F-Body shift lever (top)
________________________________________
Build Update: (Lunch Edition!)
I want to check a bunch of stuff off the to-do list (currently 237 items!) so I'm tackling the piddly stuff to see some progress and to get some crap out of my way in the garage.
Shifter Swap - Done! Converted GTO tranny to F-Body tranny.. easy swap, really, once you have the parts.
Starting point: GTO tranny with GTO shifter
1 - Remove the 4 star bit bolts
2 - Unbolt & Remove Stick, slide plastic cover off, exposing offset shifter
3 - Remove offset shifter (4 allen head bolts), exposing shift lever
4 - Drive out roll pin, swap shift lever cup to F-Body unit
5 - Comparison of the GTO shift lever (bottom) and F-Body shift lever (top)
07-23-2016, 07:45 PM
#149
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
6th February 2011 14:05
________________________________________
6 - Comparison of the stock GTO shifter (right) and B&M F-Body shifter (left)
7 - Install F-body shifter, and the final product is a GTO Tranny with F-Body shifter - That's it!
Rocker Panels - Pulled the Racing Beat rocker extensions off for body work.. cracked the driver's side but it's easily fixed. Going to have to find a good "helicopter tape" product to put back on to protect the leading edges, whatever was on there worked very well.
Intake Painting - About half done: adhesioned , primed and sanded.
Initial Sanding, 120 followed by 150 grit.
Adhesion modifier sprayed, 3 coats (you can't even tell really)
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6 - Comparison of the stock GTO shifter (right) and B&M F-Body shifter (left)
7 - Install F-body shifter, and the final product is a GTO Tranny with F-Body shifter - That's it!
Rocker Panels - Pulled the Racing Beat rocker extensions off for body work.. cracked the driver's side but it's easily fixed. Going to have to find a good "helicopter tape" product to put back on to protect the leading edges, whatever was on there worked very well.
Intake Painting - About half done: adhesioned , primed and sanded.
Initial Sanding, 120 followed by 150 grit.
Adhesion modifier sprayed, 3 coats (you can't even tell really)
07-23-2016, 07:46 PM
#150
V8 Miata Participant
Thread Starter
6th February 2011 14:07
________________________________________
Three coats of primer..(you can see it's a little rough)
Sanded with 400 grit and ready for final color..smooth as silk.
Debating color, but... dunno. Going to surf while I eat lunch and see if I like red or black better. I am trying to limit the red stuff to accents only and was planning black to match the rest of the engine bay stuff.
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Three coats of primer..(you can see it's a little rough)
Sanded with 400 grit and ready for final color..smooth as silk.
Debating color, but... dunno. Going to surf while I eat lunch and see if I like red or black better. I am trying to limit the red stuff to accents only and was planning black to match the rest of the engine bay stuff.
