The Yellow Submarine goes Nuclear
 

Powered, that is!

Some background, because this is a weird one..

First, long time Miata guy, I think I am on 7 or 8 now. Started with a FMII 97 Montego (crashed into van running a red light), had a slew of others as parts cars (some that come to mind are a 90 pile of crap bondowagon, Blue 92 with a bad crank key, Merlot 94 twisted like a pretzel, buying a red ragged out 94 shell tonight) and then there are the two I still have: a 94 Black-n-Tan (formerly Jim "Flash" Sawyer's, and before that was the infamous ADFX car that reportly dyno'd over 400 and was rebuilt by Sawyer - now called The Black Mamba, heh) and the subject of this thread: The Yellow Submarine. Ken Hill's former car, before that, Bill Cardell held it awaiting rebuild, and before that Bill Clifford's car. A 92 Sunburst Yellow Miata, #331 of 1513. Featured in a 4 Page spread ("Bold Yeller") SportCompactCar May of 2000.

For those 'old timer' Miata folks they know the car.. for the newer folks it put down 241 HP out of a built 1.6 back in a time that 240 horse was impressive, and was nicely done by Bill Clifford back in the days before mass-produced Miata turbo kits. Tons of Flyin' Miata parts (Dealer Alternative actually, before FM was FM). A month later, it was under 15 feet of water in an underground parking garage thanks to mother nature and Hurricane Allison in Houston, TX. The car was totaled, and purchased by Bill Cardell, owner of Flyin' Miata. Eventually it was sold to Ken Hill, FM's lead tech, who lovingly restored it to the former glory of it's SCC spread. The Yellow Submarine was born again, from the watery grave. I purchased it in July of 2003 (after the totalling of the 97 Montego) with around 66k on the clock and a month later flew out to Grand Junction and drove it home 20 hours straight. 7 summers later I put on 65k miles and numerous HPDEs. Rock solid reliable 225rwhp out of a built motor, just as quick as the 97 running a 13.65 @ 104. The car has been a joy to own and drive and the Miata people I have met over the years are wonderful too. I've put tons and tons of time into this car making it everything I want.. Gauges, Stereo, Interior, Lights, Gadgets. (of course that is NEVER done but it's close,.. er... a little, anyhow!) It's fun, affordable, and quick enough to have a good time with. Fall of 2010 I decide it needs a Piston Injection and begin the swap.

So, This is a build that began with the first post on November 17, 2010. I was running 3 concurrent build threads back then (LS1Tech, Miata.net and NoRotors). I got the full drivetrain in and was working out oil, cooling and AC systems when it went stagnant April 2011 due to a lot of things going on in my life (Engagement, Marriage, 3 house deals, new child). Sometime between then and now, the server hosting the images got hacked, so I'll be dealing with restoration and repathing everything to Picasa. It stayed stagnant during the chaos of a new family of 5 (new wife had 2 older kids and a jackass of an ex) including our new baby and then the dark days when the wife was diagnosed and ultimately taken by cancer a year and a half later. Covered in dust, mold setting in on the interior, it waited patiently while I figured out what my life is now compared to what I had in mind when I started so long ago. I nursed my loss with the rescue project Black-n-Tan and a '69 Mustang convertible bucket list project (healing for a car guy is like that I guess). The Sub has waited, now I am ready.. it's time to finish.

So the question for me is how do I move the original build of 14 pages over here to have a complete build thread where it belongs? I think I am going to just grab my posts from M.net and slap them here with original post dates and go from there.. some things may feel a bit disjounted (answers to questions not visible) but I think 95% of it will make sense. :) I plan to update LS1tech and M.net so those threads will be coherent historically. I am will also be here moving forward, because this is the right place for it.

So, watch this space for a massive amount of update to get caught up. I'll be tackling it as time permits but I want it to be from Day 001.

Wallyman

The car – 92 Sunburst Yellow Mazda Miata, the Yellow Submarine.
 

17th November 2010 22:02
________________________________________
THE MOTOR - 2006 GTO LS2/T56 combo, only 13k miles. No pictures yet, but bought and paid for (ebay from a yard in Oklahoma). $5500 + $275 shipping from OK to MI. Felt good to me considering LS1 setups are going $4500+ (with 70k+ miles), and most LS2 are going $6500+ with 30-50k miles. Gets me more displacement, the shorter front dress of the LS2 (at least I think so!), plus 50 more hp to start. Plus, LS2>LS1 and 6.0>5.7 for bragging rights (and LS3 was too much money, but that woulda been sweet!!). :) Complete pullout, all belt driven accessories, as much gas line and clutch line as he can get, clutch master setup and DBW gas pedal. Hopefully 99% of the parts if not all of them.

PLANNED ENGINE MODS - CAI dumping into a wheel well (research item, have seen it done just need to sort it out), headers & dual 2.5" with cats, maybe !SMOG/!EGR (research item – did this on the LT1 and was happy with it), maybe a moderate cam while it is out (really want 400+ rwhp). Trying to avoid the slippery slope of cam->springs->pushrod->new intake->fuel rail->injectors->head work… etc etc. But I think if I do a cam, well…. Dunno. Discussion item for the thread, I guess.

THE KIT - V8R rearward with a Getrag diffy. After reading swaptastic and other posts regarding the various kits, I’ve opted for a rearward setup (no weird steering geometry for me, thank you), and the V8R setup looks good to me. I could reuse the Ford 7.5” I have using a Monster Miata rear cradle, but want to do a full clean install so the Getrag gets the nod. Goal is a 400-450rwhp car, daily driven, street romped and HPDEd a few times a year. Tentative plan is to send a pile of $$ to Flyin Miata to get it going:

V8R front and rear kit via FM
FM Getrag G3 setup with 3.42 or 3.73 gears
FM full exhaust (Looked at Sanderson headers and cutom but they aren't the best option I don't think, and no custom headers for me, well beyond my skills right now)
Clutch hydraulic kit (may piece this together, did that for the FC swap and it wasn't a big deal)
FM Radiator and upgraded fans (Have the FM race rad now but have heat issues on track with a turbo, so think a new setup is in order)
Oil Pan (remote filter option - have an oil cooler I am going to reuse or may use one of the monster FC stockers I have laying around)

I learned from the FC builds there are things to fab yourself, and there are things to just pay to get. I hope to learn from my former "I can save money on that $20 part/that cost me 3 weeks to get fixed" things and just do it right where I can. That said, there are still plenty of places to save money, and I am certainly open to suggestions of those that have come before me! I expect this build to clock in around $15k, but hey.. that's some serious performance for the money. I figured for that sort of investment, I won’t be finding a better alternative, and I love the car I already have with 7 years of mods and tweaks, and I know it inside and out.

So, research is heavily under way, and I have spent hours reading build logs here and over at swaptastic (Nicely done Nathan! If the price was lower, I would be writing you a check for your car instead of building one.. well worth every penny you are asking, though!). I am sure as it gets under way with the tools, questions will flow.

Wallyman

The driveline has arrived!
 

17th November 2010 22:03
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It's here!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aN...g=w800-h600-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sH...A=w800-h600-no

A-Z Autoparts did a wonderful job packaging it, a double pallet with the motor and tranny tied down and 4 boxes as well. They even included a NIB motor mount for the driver's side! Very impressed. Shipping was $275 from OK to MI, not too shabby. Had to pick it up at a depot about an hour and 15 from home, but that's ok. Saved me a few hundred bucks compared to a lift gate home delviery.

2006 GTO LS2 & T56, 13k miles, complete pullout with all belted accessories, the DBW gas pedal with pigtail and some other box (no clue what that is yet), all clutch hydraulics (Master, remote res. and lines), and the complete air box assembly, shipped, $5775. Gotta love ebay Buy It Now.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9l...E=w800-h600-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tq...s=w800-h600-no

The happy couple, soon to be married!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/j_...8=w800-h600-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7r...g=w800-h600-no

2 small issues - last coil on driver's side, the plug connector was snapped and the passenger motor mount is missing. Called Chad at A-Z, he's working on resolving and I have faith he'll take care of it. He's been a pleasure to deal with and went out of his way to get the parts I needed for the swap. Highly recommend them.

Sold the 87 Mazda RX7 T2 shell last night too, so making so space around the yard and garage.. love it! Next up, sell the LT1 stuff and remaining RX7 parts...


17th November 2010 22:07
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Build Update:
CAM - Researched Cams last night, leaning towards the Vengeance VRX5 with dual springs and hardened pushrods..

236/238 .601/.605 113 LSA. Excellent Midrange and Top end Power. Extremely choppy idle. 2100-6800 RPM Power Band. Computer Tuning Required with this camshaft. We suggest the use of Dual Gold Springs with this camshaft. ** Our #1 Camshaft in daily driven LS2 equipped Vettes/GTOs/CTSVs.**

Not sure if I can break 400rwhp with that knowing (right now at least) the headers are 1.5" primaries, but based on everything I am reading there are some decent performing LS2 cars with that setup. Not too radical for a M6 DD car, but still mildly lumpy.

ACCESSORIES - Compiled a crap load of info on the front dress options, still fuzzy tho.. I need to wade through it. It appears I have to swap out some stuff but not sure the quantity or which parts. Since I have a GTO LS2, I am assuming water pump I have is teh desirable short one. The pulley is f-ing huge, tho. I think I may be able to resue the alternator (since I have it) and the AC (same, have that too) but use F-bod or CTS-V brackets. Still trying to sort that mess out. There is all kinds of info here about accessories but it is very chaotic. Want to place the order with FM for the majority of stuff soon, but this sort of impacts it.

DOCUMENTATION - Sub's current driveline video'd.. drove it for the last time with the turbo setup. Kinda makes me all teary-eyed.. but tears turn to maniacal laughter once I think about the LS2. :devil:

WORKSHOP - Doesn't really count as 'build' but still integral. Secured 2 truck loads fo wood for heating, got it all split and stacked so should be fine there. :thumb: Just need to get rid of the old LT1, and move the 355 RX7 out (being stored outside this year to make room).. then the space will be close to ready.

Wallyman

18th November 2010 09:53
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I just recently finished my second LT1/T56 conversion on an FC RX7 convertible, I already know this is normal. ;)
No clue, won't know until I do some more digging. I know that the water pump has to change as well as the pulley, plus the harmonic. I may be able to salvage the Alternator with the new mount, no clue on the AC. I hate to buy the $800+ conversion kit if I really only need a couple of brackets. I haven't found anyone doing the GTO LS2 that used the accessories yet.
You have a 99 but I have a 92.. you get an extra inch or so as a result from what I have read. Once I get more parts here I can get a better idea of what I am going to have to do. Trying to figure out as much as I can before things arrive, but you can only do so much at the keyboard. :)

Wallyman

18th November 2010 13:36
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How did you handle the headers? I am considering having someone build a set of custom Mid or longs, 1 3/4" or 1 7/8".

Did you do a cam or anything to the motor besides CAI and headers?

Wally

18th November 2010 14:31
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Thanks, Keith! Excited to take on the next big project. :)

I'll get some photos of the accessories and post them up or send them over.

I was only after that mount for resale purposes. ;) Adds to the funding bankroll.

Headers - ahh, gotcha. I saw them in the builds and was not sure. I've got a PM into you about them as well.

Wallyman

18th November 2010 20:06
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Wiring - yeah, that was a trick on the RX7s but I pulled back and cut out everything that was abandoned and reloomed it all, came out beautiful.

Sway bar - I was looking at moving the mounts but haven't finalized that thought yet.

Thanks, and I appreciate the tips! I'l be asking all sorts of questions as I dig into the project..

Wallyman

18th November 2010 20:09
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The CTS-V setup gets as tight as you can, I believe.. which I think is the same as the C6 setup? Not sure but it looks (from photos of the CTS setup) that you can't get much tighter to the block, so it is probably the same WP.

What is your solution for Alt and AC?

Wally

18th November 2010 20:09
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The CTS-V setup gets as tight as you can, I believe.. which I think is the same as the C6 setup? Not sure but it looks (from photos of the CTS setup) that you can't get much tighter to the block, so it is probably the same WP.

19th November 2010 17:19
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Build Update:

PARTS - Defined the order with FM, waiting on a ship quote and then it will be placed. Everything (basically) except clutch hydraulics, CAI and front dress.. hope to finalize on Monday. Woot!

Wallyman

24th November 2010 09:39
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Build Update:

PARTS - Parts ordered!

V8R Engine kit, rearward
V8R Remote oil filter oil pan
FM Motor mount heat shields (**)
FM Flywheel cover plate
Starter blanket
FM Frame reinforcement kit (corner bracing to weld in where you cut the engine bay)
Firewall Grommet for PCM loom
V8R G2 Diffy kit (**)
CTS Getrag, 3.42 (**)
FM Rear diffy breather kit & new hub seals
Poly front diffy mount
FM Crossflow radiator
FM Radiator hose kit
FM Engine hose kit (booster, heater)
FM Stage 2 fan kit for Crossflow radiator
FM Crossflow radiator mounting/wiring kit
FM Heavy duty sway bar mounts (**)
Custom Exhaust (**)
-Elvis original take-off setup
-Sanderson Headers
-FM single outlet (matches up to my Racing Beat body kit single outlet bumper)
AC o-rings
Frog arms
New Racing Beat Type 2 nose (to repair some track damage lingering for a few years ago, oops!!)

All told around $9000 shipped (total to date is around $14700). First boxes arrive next Tuesday (marked with **).

OPEN ISSUES - I left a few things undecided:

Clutch hydraulics - I have the complete stock 06 GTO setup, need to look at it and see if it will work, if not, will piece together a Wilwood setup like I did on the FC LT1 or just buy the V8R/FM kit.

Cold Air Intake - Want to put this down in front of the left wheel, have seen it done somewhere and need to scrounge up that info.

Accessories - been researching this a lot, not sure the solution yet. I think a combo of C5/C6 and modified GTO mounts but the AC still has me wondering.

Fuel system - Have a Wlabr 255 pump in the car already, just need to work out the delivery path. Combo of AN, hardline and nylon line most likely. Have done some reasearch on this and just need to boil it down to a parts list. Have some left over pieces from the FC LT1 so didn't want to just buy it all from FM since I may have half of it already.

Gauges - VDO Vision and Cockpit black, same as FC LT1. I wish there was a better option, but my faith in Autometer is shot and going to a Defi is insanely expensive. The VDO stuff looks nice, but in order to get the 160mph speedo you have to mix the two series. Still, I did it on the FC and it looked fine once I was done, so no worries.

3 3/8"
-160 mph electronic speedo
2 16"
-8k tach
-water temp
-oik pressure
-oil temp
-volt
-fuel level
LED Indicators
-Left, right, high beam
-CEL
-low fuel, high temp, low oil pressure, brake light, ALT light

I have a sequential shift light in the RX7, might steal that and put it in the Sub.. 4 light unit, Otherwise, old skool Harlan shift light from waaaaayyyyy back (which is a nice nostalgic piece to have in an LS1 powered car!). Going to have to fix some dash things since I currently have an a-pillar boost gauge, and 3 gauges plus Harlan shift light mounted above the center vents. Found all the necessary dash pieces in my spare parts area (SWEET!) so that saves me a lot of agony to find them.

Took the day off today, hosting turkey day at my place this year so doing all the domestic stuff.. wee!

Wallyman

24th November 2010 14:45
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Heh, that's the one. Thanks for the link, I had that saved off soemwhere, too.

By the time I am done, I probably should have just driven the 2.5 hours and just bought Nathan's car. ;) That's not nearly as fun, though!

Wallyman

24th November 2010 19:13
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I like that option too.. Is that just 3 x 90* + a short straight and the RC-4400 filter?

Figure once the engine is in, I can figure out the best routing based on what room is left. The car currently has a hole down into the nose area in that corner, so I would like to reuse that opening for either fresh air or for the assembly to go down into the fender. I personally like the look of a hidden air filter in an air box (or out of sight compeltely ) but we shall see.

Thanks for the info/link!
Wally

Out with the old...
 

27th November 2010 21:52
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Build Update:

OLD DRIVE TRAIN - Dropped out! Need to get the car about 8" higher tomorrow to finish, but engine/tranny/front cradle is on the ground.

Got rid of all my LT1 extra parts, so that's cool.. slowly cleaning out the crap-o-torium that is my garage. :)

Photos tomorrow!
Wallyman

GTO Shifter change to F-Body type
 

27th November 2010 22:04
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Research Update:

TRANSMISSION- Confirmed the shifter has to change to line up. See this post for a nice visual reference of why:

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Lesson learned: GTO T-56 shifter no workie

Thanks to Keith @ FM for the photo and to sutol1 for confirming I need the following part:

T56 6 Speed Transmission Parts & Rebuild Kits

And a F-body shifter (stock or aftermarket). Knowing that is one less thing to worry about! I'll get the part ordered and do some used shifter shopping in the next couple of weeks (love LS1Tech classifieds!!)

Wallyman

Some Progress Photos
 

28th November 2010 12:33
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Ahhh.. the end of an era...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fJ...s=w800-h600-no

Start of disassembly:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iL...8=w800-h600-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Oc...4=w800-h600-no

Pulled radiator, AC condensor, IC and related plumbing. Disconnected wiring, heater hoses, vac lines, speedo, PPF, driveshaft, exhaust, steering shaft..

Dropping the front subframe:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WF...8=w800-h600-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UE...o=w800-h600-no

More Photos
 

28th November 2010 12:34
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Realized the car wasn't high enough.. heh...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lU...0=w800-h600-no

Oh, look, I have a fancy 1 post lift! :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tU...s=w800-h600-no

Out it comes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0V...k=w800-h600-no

Engine size photos
 

28th November 2010 14:35
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Cleaned up the mess.. much better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BQ...4=w800-h600-no

Some photos comparing the old 1.6L to the new 6.0L. The parallax effect makes the Miata look longer but in reality the Miata water neck is in line with the front of the LS2 pulleys, and the shifter locations (once the T56 is converted to F-body style) are lined up.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/po...c=w800-h600-no

Front shot of the motors taken from about the same distance:

GTO LS2 (sorry it's crooked!):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ok...g=w800-h600-no

Miata 1.6L:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rb...A=w800-h600-no

Measured the Miata, from TB cam to outside of turbo is the same width as the LS2 primary to primary on the manifolds (which is a guess for the header width), right around 25.5". Miata is 51.25" from front of belt to center of shifter, LS2 ia 54.5" for same.

Disturbingly tiny, that 6.0L. :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2F...0=w800-h600-no

30th November 2010 10:17
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Research Update:

TRANSMISSION- More detail.. the GTO will convert to F-Body but not to Vette (found a stock C5 stick - no joy). The Vette shift box is different (smaller) and the shifter won't line up, so you have to use a Camaro/Firebird shifter. Thanks to Vesper TA @ LS1Tech for helping me with this info.

PARTS- Frog Arms arrived yesterday, look good! Should receive Exhaust and rear diffy stuff today. Been getting rid of parts from the RX7 project as well, little by little making room in the garage.

30th November 2010 10:18
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Aha. Then the GMPP setup is the answer. So which is right? I've seen both referenced. 66 is available but 67 says future part?

19155066:

ENGINE ACCESSORY DRIVE KIT - GEN 3 WITH A/C
Serpentine Accessory Drive Belt - LS1,LS6 Front Dress

or 19155067:

ENGINE ACCESSORY DRIVE KIT - GEN 4 WITH A/C FOR GEN 4 ONLY (LS2/LS7)
Please email customer service for availability of part, Future part not yet available.

30th November 2010 12:20
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Heading to Berger Chevy in 11 minutes, with 19155066 and 19155067 pictures/parts lists in hand. :)

Yes, keeping AC, no PS though. Going to see if I can piece together the needed AC/ALT parts without PS and come out cheaper than the ~$700 for the kit..

30th November 2010 13:48
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Aaaaannnndddd back. :)

They will price match (to some degree) on the kit, and piece-mealing is out of the question. Without PS parts, it was over $1400 list price. $700 kit looks pretty attractive! :)

Stopped at O'Reillys also, waterpumps for $150 (no pulley) and alternator for $175. Both lifetime warranty, for an 06 CTS-V.

30th November 2010 15:52
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Research Update:

ACCESSORIES- How does that old adage go? Time, Money or Quality.. you can only have 2 of them? So I can chase C6 parts to find and have machined (spend time) to save money and get quality.. or I can spend money (kit) to save time and get quality...

As much as it pains me to buy all new accessories, the 19155066 kit is probably the best bet for me right now. I did some car-part.com searching, and found very slim pickings especially in the 06/07 CTS-V config that I want to use (C6 stuff wasn't much better and would need the machining, plus some AC solution). So, I'll take the GMPD price over to Berger and see if they will match.. no shipping but pay taxes, should be about a wash. Not sure what to do on water pump and crank pulley yet. Thinking underdrive pulley (may order when I order the VRX5 cam kit), or pick up a used one.. that's the easy one. Water pump I can get at O'Reilly, but it needs the pulley which I don't have.. not sure what to do there yet. Otherwise, they are over $200 from FM or whomever. I like to save $$$ whenever I can, but chasing accessories for another 3 weeks an hope that I find all the parts I need... I'd rather write the check and know that the parts will be here when i need them. Besides, with my luck, that used ALT/AC/WP will puke it's guts out 200 miles after I get the car running anyhow. :)

Actual progress:

PARTS ORDERED - Ordered the Offset Lever to convert the T56 to F-body spec. Local dealer (Berger Chevy) was 150% of online price, so bought the part using link earlier in the thread (thegearbox). Ships today, sweet! Bought a used B&M short shifter for the tranny as well, just need to source a stock Z28 knob (have one on the RX7, and it suits me fine). Shifter ships out Friday, should have next week sometime.

PARTS RECEIVED - Flyin Miata order, 2 of 3 boxes arrived... CTS diffy (on it's own cute little pallet) and a box of exhaust. 3rd box is on a truck around town and should arrive soon, which is remainder of exhaust system, motor mount heat shields and engine bay corner braces. Still no word on the actual V8R kit.

1st December 2010 10:19
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I think I have it figured except for the balancer. Trying to figure out what balancers work with that 19155066 kit.. a stock C5, C6, Z06 are all easy and cheap to come by.. just not sure which will fit correctly.
Hey Geoff, long time!

As much as I like to fiddle with a solder iron, in this case I don't know I have to. The DBW cars have cruise built in as I understand it, you don't need anything additional as the PCM handles the cruise function and you can (should be able??) retrofit the Miata controls to activate it. I don't have the details yet. See attached PDF of the 06 GTO LS2 cruise system. I am not sure I have the TCM or PIM, there was a box included with the DBW pedal I haven't identified yet (haven't looked honestly). You've got me going down a path I am not ready to go down yet. ;) Make no mistake, though, I WANT cruise and will put some time into this problem at some point and will keep you guys informed. I've suffered for 7 years without it, and I am sick of it.. I want cruise badly. It is on my list, and if it is doable, I'll figure it out. :)
Yeah, whole car respray is on the docket.. there are other blems that need to be fixed and the paint has never matched since I bought it (3 shades).

1st December 2010 22:01
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2 hours late, already bought a stocker with low miles. :( Good enough for a Vette.... it will at least get me running, I can swap it later if need be.