N.D.

Hi all N.D. the NooB here, I came to learn all about V8 Miata's, I drove 1 of the earliest ones and loved the way it handled, and drove but hated the no power thing, (especially the 2nd to 3rd shift) so Im giving the V8 MX-5 some thought ... Hmmm i just saw a couple of LS 427CI+ stroker crate Eng.'s the other day 1 had over 500HP and the other had over 600HP which should be just the ticket in a 25-2800 # well balanced corner carver car capable of RR and auto X track days, if I did it I would be looking for High 10's low 11's and at least 160MPH up top! .

Note: No not a dedicated drag car just on street drag radials a couple a times!

rick

Welcome to the site N.D.



Enjoy the stay!

charchri4

Welcome to the show you have come to the right place. Just in and start reading there is very good stuff here.

Nothing wrong with having a car for the stip but just so you know you really don't need 600 hp in a Miata to get into the 10s. Sticky tires and 350 hp will get you there with out much effort. Thing is even a pig with all the options and stiffening in the world only weighs 2600 lbs. Most dial in between 2300 and 2450.

Let me see if I can give you a range of options so you can understand a bit more about V8 Miatas and the cost to make them really go zoom zoom.

The baseline is of course the stock Miata. With modest suspension upgrades the stock 130 hp Miata is a fun car to drive.

From there with good suspension and brakes the 225 hp V8 or turbo Miata is a fantastic car to drive and no question well worth the effort to upgrade. Price tag 6 to 8K

With something like the VMaxx track set up and big brakes with a 400 hp 5.0 or 5.7 the Miata is in the top 2% of best cars ever to hit the road. For the price the balance of reliability, comfort and performance absolutely can not be beat. It is simply stunning in every way to drive yet comfortable enough for date nights and reliable enough for long trips. Price tag 12 to 14K and you can get parts for it anywhere at normal prices.

Bump up to FCM or Afco suspension and big brakes, a 550 hp LS and tires that will hold it... Well I think you would find driving this Miata so euphoric that nothing else would matter in life. You never want to do anything but drive it and soon abandon all you love just to spend more time with the car. You will never even care if you have sex again which is why I'm holding back at 425 hp in mine Price 18 to 20K.

So what do you have for a Miata now?

N.D.

charchri4

Hey thanks for the rundown you gave me some great info , I do not currently have a Miata, as posted I have driven a early 90's example (when the car was new), I LOVED the handling , HATED the no go when the supposed to go pedal is pressed, I also don't care too much for the stock looks, well until the most current models come out that are supposed to look a bit like a Porsche (NO I'm not converting a new car) so I will be looking into Body kits for it, something that looks like an Exotic super car. and I want to put 13 inch brakes on it and Vette Z06 size tires and rims.

Ive been looking at second hand go fast toys that handle very well such as the Hayabusa (Bike), the Ariel Atom, Z06 Vette, Lotus Exige, Porsche Cayman, EVO10 and a few others, all but the Busa would need various amounts of mods to get performance where I want it.

If I go with a Miata I'll be looking to buy an already done LS (prefer 3,7 or 9) conversion,
also I wonder if any of the OE V8 IRS units will fit the Miata that will hold up to the power that I'm planning on throwing at it IE; Ford SN95 Cobra IRS, Ford T-Bird Super coupe, the GM Caddy W the LS9/LSA engine?

Since I like the looks of some Porsche's (Cayman, GT3R, ETC.) and the 2005+ Vette's looks rock, and some Ferrari 's, Lambo's and others, maybe I can find some kits to make the Miata look like one of those, A miniature 2006+ Z06/ZL1 Wide body Kit would be the cats AZ*!

I really don't want a drag car I want a does everything SUPER CAR, ultimate goals are 3 seconds or less 0 to 60MPH low 11's high 10's in the 1/4, 200MPH capable not that I would go that fast in a drop top (160 is fine) shoot I'll be happy with world class braking, handling and at least 3 seconds 0 to 60MPH so ultimately I'm into the Miata for the PERFORMANCE POSSIBILITIES that arise when you add 550-650 HP to it Via the lightest most compact way to essentially get BIG BLOCK cubes to get that amount of HP.

Thanks!

charchri4

So how much $$ are you thinking you can spend on this monster?

N.D.

Well just spit ballin here but I was thinking of getting an already LS converted Miata for as much as 15-20K then adding a cool Porsche wide body kit, and at my leisure a nice 605 HP/585+LB Ft of TQ Crate engine, a 13 inch brake system, the widest craziest 18" rim/tyre combo in the rear (Corvette ZO6 width or wider), 17s in the front, possibly an AOD trany, W/ paddle shifters as I get bored of shifting in the city, and every time I drive it I'll have a great big on my face!

Of course I can get a 05 ZO6 Vete for about the same or less an I can finance that, so well see what happens, I'll have to save up quite a bit of cash to do the V-8 Miata the way I want it...

charchri4

Actually an 05 Z06 would be cheaper but I don't understand why you are so hung up on HP. I've beat several pretty high end cars like that both on a road course and autocrossing with an old 275 hp LT1 tank. If you really want a smile go beat a $70,000 Vette or a $50,000 Shelby Mustang with a $5000 Camaro.

If I were you I'd come back to earth and have fun now rather than all this dreaming. What are you driving now? If it is something you can cheaply upgrade the suspension on do it. If not pick up a decent $3000 to $5000 Miata but either way go learn how to drive. Hit a couple autocrosses and schools to learn car control. Then hit a pax event or do a track day with some instruction to it. Like a PCA event or something and there is plenty of them around. Where are you located?

It's a drivers game and I can assure you the young man in our club that drives his moms focus to the track and kills everything in his class has all the smiles you could ever want at a fraction of the cost and trouble of the car you are dreaming of.

N.D.

ok thanks lots ...

I once had a 3400 LB Mustang GT W a Torque arm Road race suspension it only had 300 Hp/TQ which was ok in a hi G traction limited corner, but when Accelerating out of a corner or in a straight line acceleration situation I always wished for several hundred more HP to add to that 300 HP so ah ... yea!

charchri4

The problem with wanting more is there is never enough and it is a VERY expensive quest. Been there, done that wouldn't do it again.

What you had there was a good foundation that can be a ton of fun when pushed to the limit. Most of the cars I passed with my old F body are either because they don't know how to drive or they are afraid to put their baby in the weeds. A SN95 stang can be set up well for a few thousand bucks that will kill those guys in the hands of a good driver. And if you do happen to slide into the wall at Road America you won't be out $22,000 in repairs like my buddy was in his Cayman last year.

Sure I love my Miata but it sucks up a lot of mony and I didn't track it at all this year because I could not afford it. The years I ran my LT1 Camaro I had money to burn track fees, tires and autox and unless you love to be in the garage it was a ton more fun than working on them.




So I'm not knocking you at all for dreaming, just saying it's more fun to be content, love what you have and live within your means. In other words it's more fun to drive crap than watch the best from the sidelines!



.

MRM331

I kind of see where you are coming from here and understand. I too purchased my first Miata (almost 15 years ago now) with the understanding that I would never be happy with its stock power. I drove it and was happy while I could not afford to upgrade it but knew that some form of improvement would be in order at some point. Unfortunately that cars met an untimely death on the way to the he job interview that ultimately led to a job that would have allowed me to make it into what I wanted it to be. The universe works in strange ways.

A few years later I again had a much cheaper Miata and now the ability to perform the upgrades I felt it needed. I looked into the other options I could have for the same money (about $15k all told at that point) and realized that no other car I could buy would have the qualities that a converted Miata would. I went with a ford conversion and was happy.

My current build has close to $20k in it. I know I have the same amount as a used vette in it but it is still more the car I want than any thing else I could get for that money. At the track it keeps up with the corvette boys buy costs me a fraction of what they pay spend the day there. When I tell them that the tires I run are under $150 each and the brake pads around $100 an axle for the same compounds they run they can't believe it. I also don't feel the need to hold back *** much because I know for the price of some minor body work for them I can just replace my entire Miata tub. When I'm not at the track have a car that I can park on the street in front of my inner city house and drive to work and park on the street in front of my even more inner city school any day of the week without having to worry about it being as conspicuous as a corvette. The insurance is nothing as well.

Lastly, IMHO a well done Miata just looks better than a Corvette and does not scream "I just left my wife, I'm fifty something and looking for someone in their 30's to help me get the most out of my Viagra prescription".

I really apologize if I offended anyone with that last comment. It had to be said.

-Jason

charchri4

LOL I bet 3 vetts just went up for sale!

Old Chuck

Jim, Jason:
After being on the "learn" for several months, your answers are right on. Interesting how our dreams meld into reality when we start a journey such as the Miata conversion. I started wanting over 500 hp but after driving some and learning much more I realized that even 300 hp with the right driver can be a beast. To the OP, I want to say that there is so much knowledge and information on this site that it is scary. Most of the folks here have been there and practice what they preach and not wanna be fan boys that you find on some sites. Both Jason and Jim know cars and have been in the game for a long time and I have found that they know what they are talking about. Hope you will find your dream and if you hang around here long enough, you will learn a ton and perhaps achieve or come close to your dream.

mrmustang

I go through the same thing with potential buyers of both the MM and the Cobra replicas I have. Everyone gets wrapped up in the horsepower game, not realizing that these cars are much lighter than their late model counterparts. I'll use the same line now after reading your thread as I have with the replica guys.

"210hp is enough to get you killed in one of these cars, 500hp in one of these cars makes it uncomfortable to drive on the street, and more than a handful for most at the track, no matter what your past driving and/or racing experiences have been"


It looks, from your last post, that you finally get it, but I'll post it just the same for those that stumble across your thread in the future.

Regardless, enjoy the ride once you get it.


Bill S.

v8miatanet

The only thing going for modern big 3 to 4000 pound new cars is the stability control.

I had to c5z06 and am looking at monsters. the c5z6 is by far and away the easiest to drive to and from the track air-conditioning, dash and power windows that operate once in a while. but the stability control is the one thing that as a novice driver with 400 hp under your gas pedal you absolutely need. when you turn the stability control off you realize what a bad driver you are.

Once you have two or three years of car control under your belt with anything where you can turn stability off, have fun, learn the limits, understand gas and brakes are steering wheels in their own right, then get a 300hp miata. Two more years then get 500+hp.

Unless you drag race. Then spend as much as you want.

I have passed many many high hp cars on track. I made a trailered to the track gt3 go off in the weeds (had jacks that jacked the car up type gt3-$$&$&&), trying to follow my stock e36 m3 (with slicks .hehe). Another 400ish hp cobra ended up in the swamp laying power down on a curvy-straight. No one hurt but ego. Keep it safe.

charchri4

Good points above but I do not agree with electronic aids for novice drivers. IMO the last thing you want to do as a novice is have a computer or sticky ties cover up mistakes. Such a driver will be in big trouble when he bumps up to the next run group and shuts the electonics off.

I have long thought the very best way to learn car control is in a box stock Miata both in autocrossing and on the track. The miata is well balanced so the student can can learn to control both understeer and oversteer as they find the limits of things. With the low power and soft suspension everything happens slow enough to have time to sort things out and react correctly to what is going on. The novice quickly learns to avoid the situation that needs correcting rather than have the computer fix the problem for them.

Once said novice has squeezed every 10th from the car with good technique add brakes and firmer suspension to the mix and they learn how to carry more momentum in the bends and set deeper braking points. Then when grip and HP is added there is no surprises or panic with things don't quite go as planned.

So yeah at the end of the day traction control, stability control and antilock brakes are safer and shave time from less experienced drivers. But I would much rather have the guy riding my bumper trailbraking into the turn actually know what he is doing rather than depending on them to cover up his problems...

Just my 02 on the matter.

v8miatanet

True. But very few rich guys start with a5k miata, but you are totally right. I was actually thinking about my e46 BMW with asc. It's pretty good with only 220hp. Yes that momentum car is the best classroom. As u need to drive the wheels off them to keep up with anything on a hp track.

mrmustang

Yes, but some should (this one being from an open track day at Watkins Glen back in 2005 I believe).If I remember correctly, he drove this up from Long Island for the track time...........Bet he did not drive it back, that my friend was a 65K write off because he thought he knew better than everyone else.


Bill S.

tbone heller

That might buff out. LOL

Old Chuck

As I have learned, knowledge is the key to keeping safe and winning races. As posted earlier I started looking at 500 hp. In reality, I thought I needed about 425. I wanted to be a tad faster than my 2012 5.0 Mustang that I had sold. Since that time, with much patience from several members I realized that given the weight of the Miata, that I would be best served to start with around 250-300. I can add HP as I add knowledge and driving ability. The more I learn the more I admire driving ability over HP. Don't get me wrong, I love the grin that comes from acceleration(Jim, love the video of your 0-100-0) but given the light weight and handling, a 250-300 hp Miata will put the grin on and hopefully will do it safer then going all out for HP. I am an average driver with limited training and being older, want to make it another twenty years. Again, this board is filled with sage knowledge.

charchri4

Agreed. Most people that show up at a driving event with some sort of spendy sports car but don't realize the best performance part is always the driver. We have a guy in our club that drives his moms focus and turns better times then guys with much better performing cars. We have a couple of guys that run an old stripped out Celica that was once a lemons car. It is a total pile of crap not worth 200 bucks but they have a blast with it and turn some impressive times. I’ll never forget the very first autocross I went to and a young man named Steve came up to me and asked if I wanted some help today. In 65 seconds he changed everything I ever thought about performance cars. This is the point I was trying to make to the OP so let me explain.

In the autocross club I run with we have several guys that are available to partner with first time drivers if they want help. With years of running Camaros if a new driver has any sort of muscle car I am the coach for them. I help them get their car ready, walk the course with them and show them the ropes. They ride with me in the first run group, then I ride with then in group 2 and unless they do something dangerous usually don’t say anything. I might suggest a different gear but the first event is not the time to explain steering technique or what a late apex corner is. After 3 runs riding with me and 3 runs with them driving their car what is the first thing every single driver asks? What did I do to my car to get it to go so fast…. Sometimes they listen but more often than not the emphasis always comes back to fixing the car. In those cases I ask if they would mind if I drove their car for a fun run and that gets them every time.

It was pure genius on Steve’s part when he told me at my first event that he had never even ridden in a Camaro before and would I mind if he took it on a fun run. On the same track, with a driver that had never driven anything that big in his life, he took 4 seconds off my best time. I was so shocked I don’t know if he asked to run it again or just went round and got in line but the next lap was 6 seconds off my best time.

That was a stock Z28 with all-season tires and it was plenty good to learn car control. No matter what the car is it is still all about the driver. Want more proof? LOL fast forward several years and lots of events with the same 2 drivers in a very high performance Miata and guess what? Steve had never driven a V8 Miata before.… and sure enough he took over a second off my time!

It makes no difference at all what car you have it's still a drivers game. The best thing I ever did to make my car faster was letting Steve drive it...

Jack Sprat

Jim and Jason both hit the nail on the head.

I took on my project Miata because I wanted a car that I could eat autox cones with and is wallable* when I take it down the strip or (one day) try a road course.

Chasing HP is a BIG mistake. I overpowered my 05 Mustang with a big turbo and it became so unruly that it was only good in a straight line. The first (and last) time I tried to drift the car, I ended up in huge ditch. Unexpectedly, the Mustang's off-roading prowess was better than its on road manners and I was able to power out without having to call a tow truck. I learned a lot from that mistake, luckily my car didn't suffer in the process.

Around here, everyone has a supercharged C5/C6 Vette and are barely able to hit low 11s due to traction issues and breakage. It would be cool to hit 10s with a car that costs less than their supercharger kit and still be good through the curves.

A lot of guys that have Vettes around here are young and trying to impress others with the "look what I bought" aspect - who cares. I want controllable performance and don't want to spend an arm and a leg t to get it.



*Wallable - a car that is cheap enough to hit a wall with and not destroy you financially or physically. LOL

charchri4

I love it!! Now I just wish I still had one...