noogin

Initially I was thinking LS1 Chevy, but I have seen some nice examples of Ford conversions here. Not to start a Chevy vs. Ford war, but what kind of reliable well mannered HP can you get from the Ford motor as opposed to the Chevy LS?
Thanks to all.
Jack.

MRM331

Both have their strong suits.

The GM engines come with more "out of the box" power, are more modern which means more fuel efficient and able to be used in newer chassis, and weigh SLIGHTLY less.

The Ford engines are more easily modified due to their aftermarket support and the fact that they've been in use for 50 years. They are much cheaper to find and the kit used to install them is more inclusive and less invasive to the donor car.

A stock 1990ish 5.0 made 225 crank hp. A few simple bolt ons and tuning and you can have it up to 350 or so. Start looking at stroked cranks and high compression and you can get it over 400. 500 is pretty hard to do. The LSx engines start at the 460-400 crank hp point.

I think you can build a Ford with 400 hp for about $10,000 less than a similar LS. While I have experience, I'm still working on the Excel sheet that proves this.

-Jason

charchri4

For what it’s worth if I was starting from scratch I probably would have done a Ford. There is no question a Ford conversion is easier and cheaper to do than an LS one . The main reason I did the LS is because I already had a great Camaro for a donor.

Jason is spot on with what he is saying above but I think a hair off on the numbers he mentioned. Though probably a little under rated a stock 99 Z28 is 305 HP at the crank and an 02 SS is 340 per GM specs. Though either of those a 1000 bucks in cam, tune and headers will get you over 400 without any trouble.

I ran the numbers a dozen different ways in January and used 425 HP at the crank as a goal because that’s what my Camaro was already at. Even if I had to buy my LS in my findings the cost difference is less than 5000 cheaper to do an equal 425hp Ford. The V8R / FM kit is considerably more expensive than Martians but 302 stroker kits and aluminum heads to push the 5.0 that far are not cheap and it dosn't take long to drop 5 grand into a 302.

At the end of the day the dollars to HP ratio is about the same between the 2 as long as you don't push either beyond its comfort zone. Keep your 5.0 to 325 and your LS to 425 and you'll save a ton of $$ and effort. The old sayings are just as true as ever. There is no replacement for displacement and you can have reliability, horse power or low cost but you can only pick 2.

MRM331

Thanks Jim,
I'm actually about 80% done with a price comparison Excel sheet that shows the comparative price of building a LSx vs. a Ford using brand new components for each. I'm currently beyond the $10K savings point but that assumes you are making up a 240 rwhp or so Ford, not a 300.

The majority of the savings come due to the "a la carte" pricing of the V8Roadsters (FM) and Boss Frog LSx kits as opposed to the Monster Miata kit's inclusiveness. Another cost savings I did not consider is the cost of welding equipment required to complete the LSx conversion or the cost of having someone else complete this step. I have no idea what that factors into the total cost of an LSx but I'm sure it does.

-Jason

charchri4

Oh yeah good point. Mine is going to be way off of that because I never considered for a second buying an $1800 wiring harness or $900 radiator from FM.

My Ford build estimate borrowed heavily on your model of using GT40 heads but added a used E cam and ebay special aluminum heads. To do the Ford at 300 hp I came up with 9,000ish using Martians kit and lots of used parts.

Doing a bare bones LS using a $4000 drop out drive train ecu and used cam to reach 400 hp I came up with 12,500ish. But again that is bare bones so no $450 trans mount or $1800 wiring harness in that. Not even the $90 power steering kit!

The plan I opted for was a hybrid using a V8R frame, Martians rear end kit and lots of used stuff. My estimate for conversion going super bare bones was $6800 and had I stuck to that plan would be pretty close to that. But that was serious bare bones not even figuring in making the speedometer work again.

So much of this depends on the condition of the donor cars and level of fabrication ability on the builder. And of course the budget and level of build and HP the builder wants to get to. One thing for sure there is nothing cheap about it!

My cost sheet is in the link on the side of my blog where it says hey Jim what is all this costing you.

noogin

It looks like buying a complete car from a forum member might be way better financially. I'm assuming that if you are careful, discriminating and do your homework, it's possible to get a really nice used one and save thousands?

charchri4

It can be cheaper but there are as many variables buying one as building it yourself. I watched for nearly 2 years for the right car to come along but could not afford the better builds and ended up with a low mileage Camaro SS instead.

What I found is they are a very niche market car so there are not a lot of buyers or sellers for them and it could take quite a while to find what you want. Also the good ones go fast so you need to have at least 15 grand in the bank ready to pull the trigger. You maybe able to find one for less but most of the good ones go over 20,000. Since so much of the car depends on the skill and care of the builder and most likely you will be, at least initially, evaluating the car from long distance it is probably the ultimate buyer beware.

MRM331

Around $20K will get you a good, 50-state legal example of ether a Ford or LSx, although the latter rairly come up for sale just due to the low numbers in existance.

I get contacted about 3 times a year with one for sale. There is a well-done Ford up for sale right now on here actually. It's well built but needs a paint job.

-Jason

noogin

Jason, which one are you refering to?

MRM331

https://www.v8miata.net/v8-miatas-sa...-500-sale-909/

noogin

I assume you are talking about the black 5.0 in SC? I have a great paint source in KC, but not a Ford engine guy. Could you and your dad hop up the motor and fix the 2nd gear synchro he mentions in the ad? How much money to bring it up to that 400 HP level we spoke of?
Jack.

charchri4

Here is another one for ya
Mazda : MX-5 Miata Monster Miata 347 Ford Supercharged Stroker in Mazda | eBay Motors

MRM331

We did this for a guy last year. My brother in law and I flew out to N.M. with a check from the buyer, purchased the car as his proxy, and drove it back to PA in 4 days. A few months later we pulled the 302 out for the new owner and dropped in a new 331.

The issue with this is time. V8 Miata stuff is my side buisiness/hobby that I do when I'm not working on grad work or my day job, my toddler daughter is asleep and I have the permission of my wife to postpone what's currently on the honeydo list. We're having another child this fall which even further complicates this. I honestly turn down about 4 requests a year to build a Ford conversion for someone simply because the impact buiding them would have on my marrage is not worth the profit.

Regardless of the above, once July rolls around I have a bit more time (I'm a teacher). Building a car is out but I may be able to pick up a car/replace an engine if everything is heavily coordinated. I'll run it past my father (he builds the engines) and see if he can commit to having one done on a schedule. Send me an email (mccullyracingmotors@gmail.com) and we can further coordinate this.

-Jason

MRM331

That's pretty much exactly what you're looking for. You'd have to get it back down from the great North though.

-Jason

charchri4

I am enjoying the build process but for the money if I had to do it over again I'd be shopping for plane tickets and applying for a passport.

MRM331

^^^^+1 on that comment. Building is fun but nothing beats driving one. If you can work out the details flying out to get one than driving it back can be a lot of fun. Just make sure you have a contingency plan should you get out there and find you don't really want the car or a shipping company ready should it develop issues on the way home.

I sold one that drove out to Colorado after the sale from PA. I had another I picked up in New Mexico and drove back to PA for someone.

-Jason

Old Chuck

Jason and others,
Know it is during the school year and you are busy but wondering if you got any further on the cost ------ sheet on the Ford vs GM build ?

Trying to narrow down my car and there are, as you said, far more Ford then LS builds for sale. I would like around 400 at the crank and naturally aspirated. The Fords that do this are hard to find. Trying to find the cost to get an average Ford to the 400+ level without buying a new crate engine. I figured about 3-5 grand to get that kind of dependable power(cam, intake,heads, tune) out of a SBF. Given that, the GM starts to seem like perhaps a better buy.
I do not care if the car is Ford or Chevy powered but just want a dependable street car with the power stated. Have talked with a couple of folks on this board and they have been extremely helpful. Just looking to narrow down my cost to get the car I want. With the few number of these cars for sale, I am thinking it might be better to get a car that meets my needs other then power and then do or have the engine work done.. Just looking for options if the car I want does not present itself..
Chuck