MX-Brad

You may have seen this posted on the other site. Basically wondering what most of you Ford guys do regarding smog. I'm planning on retaining EGR and charcoal canister, but was hoping to do away with the smog pump and associated. However, after reading on a few Mustang forums there is an opinion held by many that the engine runs more efficiently with the smog gear. Also cats get clogged up without it. Wondering what the experienced would suggest.
Thanks. Brad

.boB

It depends on the state you're living in, and what the local smog laws are.

If you have cats then you need the air pump. Cats are burning fuel and volatile gasses left after the combustion chamber is done with them, and they need some fresh air to do that.

MX-Brad

I'm in a no test zone, so my main concern is to have things running efficiently. If that means no smog, no cats-great. If the car is going to stink and run inefficiently then I'll have to source out the smog equipment. Are most of you guys running with no smog?

.boB

Smog equipment is just that, smog equipment. Most of the time it will decrease efficiency. It adds weight, cost, and complexity that you really don't need. If you set the engine up right and pay attention to the tune, you'll have low emissions anyway.

If you don't need it, dump it.

tbone heller

I am running cats without a smog pump. I also have an egr valve in place (I am going to remove it) for the emission inspector to look at. Mine passes the sniffer test.

MX-Brad

OK, that settles it then. After the replies here and doing more searching I see a lot of guys ditching the smog with no ill effects. Will plan on running EGR and charcoal cannister.

tbone, or anyone else, could you explain to me how the EGR works and how it's routed? I'm a little lost as my engine is a '95, and the EGR is different than on the foxbody- plus all the intake stuff before the upper is missing. However, I will be going to a GT40 intake (found one locally) with EGR and changing everything except front drive to foxbody style. Including fox wiring and EEC.
Would be greatful if someone could provide a better understanding of this for me.
Thanks,
Brad

.boB

Dump the EGR. The goal of that system is to take the spent exhaust gasses that bypass the rings (blow-by), and feed them back in to the intake track. IMO, that's not a good thing for performance. You end end up contaminating the intake charge with exhaust gasses, and that's how the inside of an LS intake manifold gets coated with oil.

Vent to a catch can only. That's what I do with my SBF, and I'll probably do the same with this car. Although, since this car is primarily a track car, I'm considering a exhaust evac system.

MRM331

The air injection system was developed to make catalytic converters of 30 years ago more effective. Not only will the car run fine without them but will actually pass a 30mph tailpipe sniffer test as well. Having them not hooked up will only throw a code during a KOEO or KOER test. They will not trigger the MIL. The EGR will throw a code if disconnected and will trigger the MIL. The EGR system also aids fuel economy by acting as a primitive "displacement on demand" system by adding inert exhaust gas to the mixture.

I currently have the EGR system removed on mine because I'm running it on a MS2, not a a9p. The MS2 has no provision for EGR but I was able to make up for its loss by programming in and tuning an effective over run fuel cut strategy.

-Jason

MX-Brad

Thanks for the replies guys.
I'm still trying to understand EGR operation. This is my flawed perception:
under part throttle the eec sends signal to a solenoid that allows exhaust to flow out the valve into the intake. that valve is fed from the heads, goes through the lower intake and routed somehow to the valve. I'm know this is somewhat correct. Please fill in the blanks.

Also, to Jason: do you provide your modded harnesses without a core? I don't have a harness and if I have to buy one anyways I'd just as soon pay you for it than someone else.
Regardless I'll be in touch with you to save me a spot in line.
Thanks. Brad

tbone heller

When all else fails.............Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MX-Brad

lol, yes I totally get the purpose of EGR, but since my engine is not complete and the sn95 system is different than the fox style that I'll be switching to, I'm just curious of the actual routing. ie my current intake manifold is not egr equiped. It's routed differently. The GT 40 manifold I'll be picking up has provision for egr. I'm assuming I'll need a few more pieces to get it complete, possibly even the fox egr and sensor/ servo or whatever it's called.
Thanks for the reply. Brad

tbone heller

You will need the Fox-body upper & lower manifolds, egr valve, egr position sensor, egr spacer, & an egr solenoid. Basically all of the crap that i am pulling off of my car.

MRM331

I can get you a harness or use one of the ones I have in stock. I charge between $150 to $180 to do this depending on what the going rate is at the time on eBay. I also have donor injection harnesses which I currently supply for $50. These seem to be going up on eBay as of late so I may be raising this to $75. There is no need to pick up a HEGO (o2) sensor harness a trans harness or the harness the fuel pump relay is in since I add can add these connections to the main without having a donor. The trans VSS sensor and the fuel pump relay circuit I include in my standard $225 main harness mod price. The HEGO connections I can add for an additional $50 ($35 if you have a donor with good plugs).

-Jason

MX-Brad

OK, I just paid for for Martins kit, I'm ready to order the harnesses I need.
How do I proceed? You still have my email address?

I've almost finished rebuilding my engine, kit and diff is on the way and paid, I still have to find a tranny, and buy your harness setup. Once that is all settled the money bleed should finally slow to a trickle.
Brad

charchri4

Oh my friend if that were only true...

V8droptop

That's actually PCV, I think. Unless I'm missing something on this engine.

On much newer vehicles, egr can be a performance benefit, but the ford's equipment is pretty old compared to the systems I'm used to.

charchri4

You sure about that man? I don't know them all by any means but I do know there has not been very many V8s in the last few years with EGR valves. 1999 was the last year the Camaros had them and I believe 09 was the last year the Mustangs did. Hope that doesn't open any Ford bashing!

V8droptop

Depends on your definition of performance, but yes. There was a pretty cool test done with a civic that had the egr programmable by aftermarket ecu, and by varying the open/close tables and times, could increase his fuel mileage a good bit. I think he ended up putting it on a button for highway cruising. By recircing exhaust gas (which is inert) into the combustion chamber, you reduce the oxygen in the cylinder, reducing the needed fuel. This also lowers combustion temps, reducing the ability of the motor to produce NOx. This can improve mileage/combustion efficiency, actually. EGR is usually closed at WOT or high rpms, and idle. It is basically just another tool on an electronically controlled engine to improve efficency/reduce emissions. GM might have gotten enough credits with flex fuel vehicles, AFM (DOD) and etc to not require it? Not sure why they strayed from it, but obviously not the only requirement for clean emissions.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5047751_fu...egr-valve.html

charchri4

Cool. Some day you and I are going to sit down with a cold one so I can soak this all up!

Something to always keep in mind is the car companies mission. Like any company they are in business to make a profit so they only care about safety, performance and emissions if it leads to a better margin or bigger numbers. That means selling as many cars as possible at a biggest profit possible and minimizing losses in warranty claims.

Since efficiency drives profit cars are designed with a heavy emphasis on ease of assembly and the fewer parts the better. Since turning on the yellow light on the dash leads to a warranty claim getting rid of a code generating system like an EGR valve and supporting parts is an easy win.

Just a thought...

V8droptop

Very true, that makes sense. Plenty of emissions equipment by the wayside with newer and better electronic controls. The old hot air doors in intakes that took warm air from over the top of the exhaust manifolds is something I haven't seen since early 90s TBI engines. Another good example is the Dodge cummins diesel not needing DEF on some pickups till MY 2012, while the other two manufacturers were using it in MY2010 to meet stricter NOx emissions from the advent of DPFs. Lots of examples in the auto industry like that. Meet the bare minimum, and call it good.