Looking at realistic hp numbers
10-29-2013, 11:13 AM
#26
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Jim,
Oil is complicated and as boB said, a large business designed to sell oil. It takes time to find what is in each oil and choosing the oil that BEST serves YOUR purpose. Oils are designed to different standards for a reason. You have look hard to find the info that you want but it is out there. boB is correct in dino oils(from compressed peat, dinosaurs etc.) not being PAO based and that few companies use the PAO base stocks. Do you need a PAO based syn? That is the question we all have to answer for ourselves. I do, but then I am a tad OCD..
Oil is complicated and as boB said, a large business designed to sell oil. It takes time to find what is in each oil and choosing the oil that BEST serves YOUR purpose. Oils are designed to different standards for a reason. You have look hard to find the info that you want but it is out there. boB is correct in dino oils(from compressed peat, dinosaurs etc.) not being PAO based and that few companies use the PAO base stocks. Do you need a PAO based syn? That is the question we all have to answer for ourselves. I do, but then I am a tad OCD..
10-29-2013, 03:35 PM
#28
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Given what you use, you should be fine. I would watch oil temp and as long as it is not overheating then you should be fine. Many things we do are overkill and trackers have used dino oil for years with no damage to their engines. The V-8's used in most Miatas are not reved to 8,000+ in every gear and engine tolerances are not as refined as many hi tech engines. I would imagine that M1 will work fine for you as long as you keep it clean. Again, this is just my opinion and I am just getting into the V8 Miata. I have looked at oils for several years and know older V8's but I am not an expert..
11-01-2013, 01:32 AM
#29
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I don't see many V8 Miatas running "regular" street tires. I see big, sticky tires which are not easily pushed around. Also, the Camaro weights a 1,000 lbs. more than a Miata (mine weighs 2660). The Camaro has a lot more inertia at 65 mph to carry it further down the road.
11-01-2013, 06:14 AM
#30
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Jon,
I agree. I think it is everything working together. Big tires, belt driven pulleys and fans as well as unsprung mass that we do not think about.
I agree. I think it is everything working together. Big tires, belt driven pulleys and fans as well as unsprung mass that we do not think about.
11-01-2013, 08:24 AM
#31
Jim Stainer
Even with the back seat removed and what not the Camaro was a pig at 3715lbs. The Miata is 2580 so no question the mass makes a big difference in the coast.
The Camaro had 295/30- 18s on 11 inch wide wheels and the Miata has 225/45-15s on 9. So pretty much apples to apples tires for the size to each beast but I sure wish I could run 250+ wide on the Miata!
I'm thinking about doing another cam swap on it this winter and if I do will probably do a dyno to tune it next spring and find what the rwhp is .
The Camaro had 295/30- 18s on 11 inch wide wheels and the Miata has 225/45-15s on 9. So pretty much apples to apples tires for the size to each beast but I sure wish I could run 250+ wide on the Miata!
I'm thinking about doing another cam swap on it this winter and if I do will probably do a dyno to tune it next spring and find what the rwhp is .
Last edited by charchri4; 11-01-2013 at 09:05 AM.
11-01-2013, 10:22 AM
#32
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I run 245/40/15 on my road race miata. Tons of grip. I need a better seat! I'll tell you for the money, I was .550 slower than a full race viper at Thunderhill at the last race and the car has more to give. All that for 35k
11-09-2013, 03:31 PM
#33
Wow, this started out as a HP thread then Mustangs, then oil then tires. Well I can chime on on all of these. My 1st new car was a 66 Sprint 200 Mustang. Then replaced that with a 66 271HP Pony Package Mustang convertible, replaced that with a new 70 Mach 1, 351 Cleveland engine with ram air/shaker hood in Grabber Blue. Been a Ford guy ever since. Then a few years ago got a 66 Sprint 200 convertible for my wife--that car's been sold. Now, Miata's. Bought my wife a year old 93(auto) Miata. Loved that car, reminded me of my old Triumphs--except maybe a 1000% more reliable. Then I got the road racing bug and got myself a 91 R package Miata, then very stupidly replaced that with a 93 JR(M45)SC Miata. Then a few years ago found a V8 Miata on E-Bay that did not sell, a Ca. rust-free track car. Had it shipped to NJ. The 302 engine lasted 2 or 3 easy track laps before it blew. Got in touch with Jason (MRM)-explained to him I am no mechanic--just a driver. Wanted him & his dad to build me the most solid reliable NA track engine they could. They did--actually twice. A 302 stroked to 331. Had the car dynoed by Tom(Jason's dad) a couple of month ago--306hp. He said with some tweaking he thought he could get another 25-50hp out of it. With my track season ending last week--that is the plan for this winter.
Oils: Initially Tom recommended a Valvoline 20-50 conventional racing oil with a Valvoline engine break-in additive.
Then the guy that maintains my track car had me switch over to M1 10-30 full synthetic. Been running that the past few years. Seems to work for me.
Tires:
Car came with 255-50-16's rear and 245-40-15's up front. Those were were fairly old and rock hard rubber. Replaced those with Toyo RA1's. 205-50-15 up front and 225-40-15 in rear. Then switched over to Toyo 888's, had front fenders cut and flared, to fit 235-50-15's all around. My 888's were down to the cords but I did not want to get new tires for my last few days on track so managed to stay on the track more or less with these 888's. But a friend at the track had a set of somewhat used but at least not corded--Hoosier racing slicks mounted on the same Kosei K1 wheels I use sitting in his trailer. These are 23.5 X 9 X 15, these were a huge improvement over the corded 888's. The difference was like going from my 1.6 to the V8. I've already ordered a set of these Hoosiers for next year. Although I don't drive this car on the street. The little I did, I found the 888's and RA1's a really good fit for track and street use on my V8. Obviously, now with these slicks--they will see even less street time then the little I did before.
So, I think I about covered all the bases here.
Mustangs
Miata's
oil
Tires
Oils: Initially Tom recommended a Valvoline 20-50 conventional racing oil with a Valvoline engine break-in additive.
Then the guy that maintains my track car had me switch over to M1 10-30 full synthetic. Been running that the past few years. Seems to work for me.
Tires:
Car came with 255-50-16's rear and 245-40-15's up front. Those were were fairly old and rock hard rubber. Replaced those with Toyo RA1's. 205-50-15 up front and 225-40-15 in rear. Then switched over to Toyo 888's, had front fenders cut and flared, to fit 235-50-15's all around. My 888's were down to the cords but I did not want to get new tires for my last few days on track so managed to stay on the track more or less with these 888's. But a friend at the track had a set of somewhat used but at least not corded--Hoosier racing slicks mounted on the same Kosei K1 wheels I use sitting in his trailer. These are 23.5 X 9 X 15, these were a huge improvement over the corded 888's. The difference was like going from my 1.6 to the V8. I've already ordered a set of these Hoosiers for next year. Although I don't drive this car on the street. The little I did, I found the 888's and RA1's a really good fit for track and street use on my V8. Obviously, now with these slicks--they will see even less street time then the little I did before.
So, I think I about covered all the bases here.
Mustangs
Miata's
oil
Tires
Last edited by mwest; 11-09-2013 at 03:38 PM.
11-10-2013, 06:23 AM
#34
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M,
Good info. This thread has taken on a life of its' own but that is fine as there is a lot of good info given. Being new to the V8 Miata, all of this helps in my search for what exactly I want or as close to it as possible. Was just trying to see how much rwhp I could expect from a naturally aspirated SBF without buying a brand new crate motor...Want a dependable street driver that could play on a track or Xcross once in a great while..
Good info. This thread has taken on a life of its' own but that is fine as there is a lot of good info given. Being new to the V8 Miata, all of this helps in my search for what exactly I want or as close to it as possible. Was just trying to see how much rwhp I could expect from a naturally aspirated SBF without buying a brand new crate motor...Want a dependable street driver that could play on a track or Xcross once in a great while..
11-10-2013, 07:45 AM
#35
Old Chuck
This thread has certainly wandered around a bit. Getting back to your original query: I think most of the guys with V8's use them for same purpose as you're wanting to. And the guys I know with V8's are really happy with them as street cars with some occasional track use. I am one of the few that has the car as a dedicated track car. I sometimes regret not being able to legally and comfortably take it out for a cruise every now & then. Even though it's registered, plated and insured it's not really street legal. Won't pass state emissions, no headlights or horn and calls attention to itself with big numbers and decals on the car. But, I do sometimes drive it to car shows or take it out for testing very early on Sun. mornings.
But getting back to your goals, I don't believe you should have any problem reaching your goal of a NA SBF with 300rwhp street car.
This thread has certainly wandered around a bit. Getting back to your original query: I think most of the guys with V8's use them for same purpose as you're wanting to. And the guys I know with V8's are really happy with them as street cars with some occasional track use. I am one of the few that has the car as a dedicated track car. I sometimes regret not being able to legally and comfortably take it out for a cruise every now & then. Even though it's registered, plated and insured it's not really street legal. Won't pass state emissions, no headlights or horn and calls attention to itself with big numbers and decals on the car. But, I do sometimes drive it to car shows or take it out for testing very early on Sun. mornings.
But getting back to your goals, I don't believe you should have any problem reaching your goal of a NA SBF with 300rwhp street car.
11-10-2013, 03:36 PM
#36
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M,
Thanks. I thought the 300 was very doable but wanted to check in case what I have been reading elsewhere was just boasting. When you read about gobs of HP being produced, you don't always know how much money they threw at it or if it could idle on the street for very long.
Thanks. I thought the 300 was very doable but wanted to check in case what I have been reading elsewhere was just boasting. When you read about gobs of HP being produced, you don't always know how much money they threw at it or if it could idle on the street for very long.
11-10-2013, 04:14 PM
#37
Old Chuck
Regarding idling on the street-I can't do that without running hot. On the track no matter how hot the ambient temp is I barely touch 200 degrees. I have an oversized racing radiator and I have the original Miata fans mounted in front of the radiator wired together pushing air. Currently I turn them on manually but they are not very effective while idling on 80+ degree days.The off season plan is to wire them up to turn on automatically and possibly replace them with a more efficient set up.
When I am sitting in the grid before going on track I always keep a close watch on the temp gauge. I often just shut the car down while in the grid. If I took the car out for a drive and got stuck in stop & go traffic, especially on a hot day, I'd have a big problem.
This gives me an idea to post a question on here about cooling. You should contact Jason(MRM). He used to have cooling issues. I know he went to a waterless system and I think he's happy with it. I don't know what else he's done.
Regarding idling on the street-I can't do that without running hot. On the track no matter how hot the ambient temp is I barely touch 200 degrees. I have an oversized racing radiator and I have the original Miata fans mounted in front of the radiator wired together pushing air. Currently I turn them on manually but they are not very effective while idling on 80+ degree days.The off season plan is to wire them up to turn on automatically and possibly replace them with a more efficient set up.
When I am sitting in the grid before going on track I always keep a close watch on the temp gauge. I often just shut the car down while in the grid. If I took the car out for a drive and got stuck in stop & go traffic, especially on a hot day, I'd have a big problem.
This gives me an idea to post a question on here about cooling. You should contact Jason(MRM). He used to have cooling issues. I know he went to a waterless system and I think he's happy with it. I don't know what else he's done.
11-10-2013, 07:02 PM
#38
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Old Chuck
Regarding idling on the street-I can't do that without running hot. On the track no matter how hot the ambient temp is I barely touch 200 degrees. I have an oversized racing radiator and I have the original Miata fans mounted in front of the radiator wired together pushing air. Currently I turn them on manually but they are not very effective while idling on 80+ degree days.The off season plan is to wire them up to turn on automatically and possibly replace them with a more efficient set up.
When I am sitting in the grid before going on track I always keep a close watch on the temp gauge. I often just shut the car down while in the grid. If I took the car out for a drive and got stuck in stop & go traffic, especially on a hot day, I'd have a big problem.
This gives me an idea to post a question on here about cooling. You should contact Jason(MRM). He used to have cooling issues. I know he went to a waterless system and I think he's happy with it. I don't know what else he's done.
Regarding idling on the street-I can't do that without running hot. On the track no matter how hot the ambient temp is I barely touch 200 degrees. I have an oversized racing radiator and I have the original Miata fans mounted in front of the radiator wired together pushing air. Currently I turn them on manually but they are not very effective while idling on 80+ degree days.The off season plan is to wire them up to turn on automatically and possibly replace them with a more efficient set up.
When I am sitting in the grid before going on track I always keep a close watch on the temp gauge. I often just shut the car down while in the grid. If I took the car out for a drive and got stuck in stop & go traffic, especially on a hot day, I'd have a big problem.
This gives me an idea to post a question on here about cooling. You should contact Jason(MRM). He used to have cooling issues. I know he went to a waterless system and I think he's happy with it. I don't know what else he's done.
Pullers or pushers that were meant to be pushers (the Miata fans you have were not) would make a difference for you.
-Jason
11-10-2013, 07:47 PM
#39
Jason,
I'm kind-a surprised that you're running hotter on the track then on the street. On the track I mentioned nearing 200 degrees--I meant 210. I don't know where my boiling point is & I don't want to find out. When I'm sitting in the grid and I see the temps approaching 220 I shut it down and run the fans. As you know I have no ducting anywhere, I don't know if the front splitter has any effect or not. But, since it's a track car & temps continue to run in the normal temp range it's not a real priority but something I would like to address this winter. One other thing I need to look at is better oil pressure management. Toward the end of the season we made some adjustments to suspension and I've gotten pretty comfortable with the car now, so my cornering speeds have increased dramatically. To the point now (the GT3's can't shake me anymore)that my oil pressure in the corners is dropping from 50psi to 20-25psi. I'm open to suggestions.
I'm kind-a surprised that you're running hotter on the track then on the street. On the track I mentioned nearing 200 degrees--I meant 210. I don't know where my boiling point is & I don't want to find out. When I'm sitting in the grid and I see the temps approaching 220 I shut it down and run the fans. As you know I have no ducting anywhere, I don't know if the front splitter has any effect or not. But, since it's a track car & temps continue to run in the normal temp range it's not a real priority but something I would like to address this winter. One other thing I need to look at is better oil pressure management. Toward the end of the season we made some adjustments to suspension and I've gotten pretty comfortable with the car now, so my cornering speeds have increased dramatically. To the point now (the GT3's can't shake me anymore)that my oil pressure in the corners is dropping from 50psi to 20-25psi. I'm open to suggestions.
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