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DD/street tires

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Old 01-11-2015, 12:48 PM
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Default DD/street tires

The never ending saga of trying to find decent wearing tires that provide adequate wet grip and good dry grip under a 400+ whp Miata...ya...like that'll happen...

I'm trying to get away from the 100 wear 225/45/R15 RA1's w/o creating a spin on demand death machine. I'm eyeballing Nitto Neogen's in 205/50/R15 at 280 treadwear. I also looked at the Yoko S drives (300 wear) but read some negatives reviews. No reviews or threads are from people running near the HP we do.

I'd love to have a set of high performance A/S tires so that 30* wet days (like today) could still mean a fun run out for lunch w/o losing the face splitting grin that my current tires provide on 90*+ summer days. Where's that cake you get to eat and keep? ...right...not going to happen.... I don't mind having a set of summer/track wheels and a set of winter/DD wheels if that's what it comes to, but I also don't want to go through the expense if the grip is so sucky it's not fun to drive anyway. What say you?
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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I've ripped up a set of Rivals and Nitto NT05s faster than water through a funnel too but I'll cut to the chase I have tried 4 different tires to get to where you want to go.
Firehawk Wide Oval Indys
Hankook Ventus V12
Sumitomo HTRZ III
BF Goodrich g Force Comp 2

All were 300 to 340 tread performance summer tires and all were autocrossed and driven hard. The was the last day of a set of Ventus V12s.
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Of the bunch the tires that lasted the longest were the Ventus V12s, the best performer was the Indy and the ones I liked the best for all around performance were the Sumitomos. However - full disclosure here the Sumitomos were the only tire I used both on an F body and the Miata all the rest were only F bodies. On the Miata there is no question the Rivals were better than the Sumitomos in an autox but the Sumitomos are night and day better in the rain and for DD.

The bottom line is no tire can do both if you want grip and good DD life you have to change them when you go to the track.

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Old 01-11-2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by charchri4 View Post
The bottom line is no tire can do both if you want grip and good DD life you have to change them when you go to the track.
DD was a bad choice of terms for me. My car is a drive to work on Friday and weekend play car. My desire is a tire that last longer than the RA1's and can be driven in near freezing wet weather w/o fear for my life.
...hmmm...my first post would have been much shorter had I just said that....
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:03 PM
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in my 300whp protege I got 6k miles out of my rivals before I sold the car. Would have likely got 10-13k out of them.I really think it's the best tire I've ever driven. I highly recommend them, but like Jim said, they aren't very good in the rain.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:41 PM
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+1 to what Steve said. I think you could kill a set of rivals in 3 track days and 5000 street miles really easy and they are 200 tread ware.

Nothing with a good contact patch like that is going to be good in the rain or cold weather. I ran my Rivals last winter and got stuck on flat ground with snow on it. Still they are great tires for aggressive street duty and no question a 200 tire like a Rival will live longer than the 100 RA1s. A lot of guys run Rivals and RS3s all the time and they are OK in the rain. Not great you do have to be careful but OK.

If you bump up to the 300 treadwear tires I have been running they do last much longer and you do get very comfortable rain handling but performance drops off quite a bit. With what you do with your car and how little wet weather it sees I'd try Rivals or RS3s.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:22 PM
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I am trying to get my hands on some nos t1r toyo in a 245/35/16 size. Who wants some?
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:44 AM
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I am running the 245/45-16 Toyo, but the 245/35-16 would be a better fit.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:05 AM
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Ha that's barely a start! My dream is at least a 295/30-17

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Old 01-13-2015, 09:22 AM
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I know I looked at 16" wheels when I bought the car but don't remember why I went 15's... I'll look at those options again.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:28 AM
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17's aren't on my radar. I like the way my brakes fill up the 15's and I like some sidewall. I've been reading a lot on suspension recently and the role a tire's side wall plays into overall feel and available traction. It's head spinning.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:47 AM
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Oh I hadn't thought about traction... I was just thinking enough tire to make a good hind side view!

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Old 01-13-2015, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by charchri4 View Post
I was just thinking enough tire to make a good hind side view!
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:26 AM
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Before DOT slicks, we tried:

All were either high performance or drag radial tires

Toyo
Nitto
BF Goodrich
Hankook
Mickey Thompson

The best were Hankook RS2's. So, I'm gonna say the Hankook Ventus RS3.
None are gonna be good enough (performance wise), but the Hankooks were the best from what we had experienced. Only driven in warm weather. So, can't say how they work on cold roads. Rain performance was as good as can be expected.
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:26 AM
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Review of some of the popular choices: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=197

Direzza ZII Star Spec may be the tire tapped. See how a 200 wear in 205/50R15 performs. ...but the Rivals are still in the running. I don't think I'll be well served by trying any tread wear higher than 200 at this point. Not worth the compromises for a weekend car.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator Bait View Post
Review of some of the popular choices: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=197
Direzza ZII Star Spec may be the tire tapped.

LOL, That's how long it has been since we researched street tires. Only one I've even heard of is the Hankook RS3. Last set of Dunlops we tested were SP 9000. There was also a Yokohama tire that is no longer made. Can't recall the model number.

Am so spoiled by slicks now that if we tried to go back to street tires, would be sliding all over the place. Can see myself thinking "oops, forgot we're on street tires," while entering a corner @ too much speed.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 523-LSX-NB View Post
LOL, That's how long it has been since we researched street tires. Only one I've even heard of is the Hankook RS3. Last set of Dunlops we tested were SP 9000. There was also a Yokohama tire that is no longer made. Can't recall the model number.

Am so spoiled by slicks now that if we tried to go back to street tires, would be sliding all over the place. Can see myself thinking "oops, forgot we're on street tires," while entering a corner @ too much speed.
The flip side of the slick or the RA1s I'm running now is being concerned with having enough tire to last a drive to the Mitty, then the Gap, and back to God's country here in Texas. Compromises must be made. I'll just run a gear higher than usual.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:56 PM
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Yah, that's just too far for slicks. Not to mention if it were to rain on the way. If we make a rare long drive for a meet, like a stop on the HRPT, we use the old RS2's & drive like an old lady.

For The Mitty, we are putting old tires on the rear & pulling it behind on a tow dolly (drive shaft removed, trans plugged). Will throw the rear slicks in the tow vehicle & mount 'em @ the Hotel. There's just too much stuff to travel with in order to drive the Munster down + I don't like to waste travel miles on the dual valve springs.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:10 PM
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I'm torn between towing or driving. I have a car hauler, but I really want to make the drive between the Mitty and the Gap. I know once in the twisties I'll want the RA1 level grip. I do have the option to just buy another set of RA1s. They'll last the distance and perform well in the wet. ...just write em off as a cost of the trip.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:05 AM
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If gas prices bounce back to where they were tires would be cheaper than fuel in the truck!

I get the whole traction thing but I just wish we could get a lot more tire under the car!

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Old 01-16-2015, 12:10 PM
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Jim, you just need to get serious and put some decent flares on there like the Vette

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Old 01-16-2015, 01:00 PM
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LOL you mean serious like cutting half the quarter off to make huge flairs on it??

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Not a problem! the problem isn't the willingness to do surgery, the problem is lack of 23 to 24.5 tall street tires that are more than 225 wide. If there was a 295 to 315/30-17 it would fit my wheels and be on this car!


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Old 01-16-2015, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by charchri4 View Post
LOL you mean serious like cutting half the quarter off to make huge flairs on it??

Not a problem! the problem isn't the willingness to do surgery, the problem is lack of 23 to 24.5 tall street tires that are more than 225 wide. If there was a 295 to 315/30-17 it would fit my wheels and be on this car!
The flare modification needs to include clearance for up to a 27"+ diameter tire. We were able to get up to 14" from CL of wheel to front wheel well before the need to modify the location of the wheel well, NB. Am not sure what the limit is on an NA, but it must be close to that.

All V8 Miatas are capable of using large tires front & rear. I don't understand why builders don't complete the swap by making room for tires that will put the "under the curve" power to the ground.
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Old 01-16-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 523-LSX-NB View Post
The flare modification needs to include clearance for up to a 27"+ diameter tire. We were able to get up to 14" from CL of wheel to front wheel well before the need to modify the location of the wheel well, NB. Am not sure what the limit is on an NA, but it must be close to that.
And you tell me this now!!! I would really REALLY like to see how you did that.

Originally Posted by 523-LSX-NB View Post
I don't understand why builders don't complete the swap by making room for tires that will put the "under the curve" power to the ground.
I looked at this every which way I could and near as I can tell the absolute max tire size you can get away with is 24 5/8" tall. Any more than that and you hit the frame gusset on the fire wall on an NA and the upper fender support just rear of the head light on an NB. Both parts are structural components of the chassis that short of building a tube frame and can not be modified very much and keep the integrity of the car. You have a bit more room in the back but anything over 25 1/2” tall hits the front of the wheel well at the rocker. The rocker would be no biggie to modify but my plan all along was to run the same size on all 4 corners so it was irrelevant.

My tires are right at 25" tall and it took quite a bit of BFHing in the front to get those in. At my ride height I can not go full lock with out hitting and I get a few rubs in an autox too. I just don't see how 27+ would fit in the car with out a tube frame...

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Old 01-16-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by charchri4 View Post
And you tell me this now!!! I would really REALLY like to see how you did that.

I looked at this every which way I could and near as I can tell the absolute max tire size you can get away with is 24 5/8" tall. Any more than that and you hit the frame gusset on the fire wall on an NA and the upper fender support just rear of the head light on an NB. Both parts are structural components of the chassis that short of building a tube frame and can not be modified very much and keep the integrity of the car. You have a bit more room in the back but anything over 25 1/2” tall hits the front of the wheel well at the rocker. I just don't see how 27+ would fit in the car with out a tube frame...

Mentioned front mods it in a PM couple months ago. Modified the front bumper cover, fender & lower rocker cover @ wheel well. 24 5/8" is not max. My tires are 26.2" front & 25.7" rear. These are measured dimensions & slightly larger than the vendor states. 27" is what we planned for knowing that 26.5 ish was the largest tire we might use. The suspension needs to go up slightly, as well. In the rear, modified fender up to the 14" closest point to inner well (forward @ rocker), removed part of the shock tower & part of the inner well toward rear of the car. Others may or may not have to cut the upper shock tower & rear inner well depending on wheel offset.
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:48 PM
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The fender and bumper cover is easy how did you clear the support behind the headlight back to the firewall with out raising the car a couple inches?



I'm not picturing what you did in the back but would love to understand. Can you post up photos of what you are talking about please?

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