Lemayilleur

It won't happen tomorrow, but I've been considering it enough that I'm planning to take my Maita apart this winter to get more familiar with it. I'd like to make sure that the body is in great shape and could take the swap. I'm thinking even preparing the tunnel maybe?

I have a few planning question:

• 1. Reliability being at the top or my priority, what LS engine/donor should I keep and eye on(and learn/shop about)?
• 2. v8r/flynnmiata kits looks like my best option for the kit, given I go the LS route? No news about Monster LS kit availability?
• 3. Any books or places (other than here lol) I should frequent?
• 4. What are things I wont regret upgrading today and will still be awesome when I'm pushing over 300HP with a v8? What order should I go.
• 5. What are things that I will likely not be able to DIY, or shouldn't DIY> Given I'm not a mechanic, but trying to become one? lol

charchri4

Wow really good questions! I see you are on Miata.net too and there is tons of good info here and over there. Many of the questions you are asking have been answered really well on both forums so just dig in and read all you can.

Could you give us a little more back ground on the project?

What year is your miata and what condition is it in? Does it have AC and PS and do you want to keep them? Does it have antilock brakes and cruse control? This is the time to be really discerning about rust and condition of the car....

What goals for the car do you have? What do you plan to do with it once it is converted?

Tell us more about your shop. What do you have for tools and experience? Do you have any friends that are good welders or good mechanics that can help you with problems that come up?

Where are you located?

Last but most important what is your budget for the build in $$ and time.

Lemayilleur

Current car is a 1993 Canadian Limited Edition (LE). I paid the same price it would of cost me for a regular NA. Not that it really matters, I tend to beleive that car are ment to be driven and not parked. It has what seems like a legit 78,000KMs now. No A/C, but I wouldn't mind one sometimes lol. IT has cruise control, but I do not use it. Also has power steering and ABS.

As for my goals, I just want a cool, fast - yet reliable - summer commuter. One that I can hoon in and maybe autocross once in a while.

I'm a computer technician, I usually find my way around things I get into - slowly but certainly. I'm in a fine position both chronologically and financially... The big picture is that I want to become a bit more confident when I look under the hood of my car, you know? My father is crazy skillful in a lot of mechanics/construction stuff. I have access to a lot of room and tools. Like decent welding equipment, full lift and etc. But I want to try and understand what's under the thing I drive, all while feeling my need for speed .

I look under my hood and see all those freaking tubes, no idea what the f they are and what would happen if I unplugged most of them.

I have many option that could be good before starting a first project with a v8... I.E. Turbo, Supercharge, 4cyl, 6cyl, you-name-it... but above and beyond "what's on the menu" there's also stuff I'm likely gonna have to fix on the Miata: Clutch started slipping, VLSD diff feels super awkward and Torsen are pricey here (Quebec, Canada), slugish/slow 1.6l.

My current favourites options are:

• Honda K24 swap.
  A guy is making a kit, it requires very little modification which would be good for a beginner. Reliable set up for sure.
• v8 swap.
  Requires more time, skills and money.
• Beat on the 1.6
  Cheap blower build of some sort, until I'm forced to pick from the above.

mazdaspeedmiata

If u have access to the welding tools and space then hell yeah.

I highly doubt the k24 would be that much easier then this quite well documented LS1 or small block Ford

Lemayilleur

Indeed, the k24 swap is new and the kit isn't even available yet. But it is an easy swap as it keeps everything from the miata, but the engine. No welding required. Yet its not exactly cheap for what it is... around 8000$ in the end.

charchri4

A couple thoughts on a non v8 swap.

The K24 is a nice bump in HP but it's still going to sound like a 4 banger and have no torque.

The K24 doesn’t have a track record of hundreds of swaps and a ton of guys that know the ins and outs of it to advise you. As a newbe under the hood you are really going to need that.

If you are going to go to all the trouble and expense to do a swap you may as well swap for a significant gain.

If you want easy I would suggest doing a Ford swap. For 5 grand in parts from Martian and Jason you have a complete kit that about as plug and play as it can be.

Last but most important. For the same $8000 you can do a stock Mustang Ford swap and have more power, more torque and absolute delight every time you turn the key and hear that beautiful V8 sound track.

Lemayilleur

You are absolutely right about those fact for the K24 swap... They are about to put it under track test, but that would be very early to pull such a swap and be the guinea pig.

See, I get mixed input. Some will say do a ford v8 swap and other will say do it right and go with the LS... Can we not list the pros and cons of both?

Ford Pros:

• Cheaper.
• Easier.

Ford Cons:

• Heavier?

I stilll haven't received any info about reliability -So, how reliable is a well-put together v8 swap really? Ford as never been exactly reliable through my young eyes, but neither is Chevy...

P.S. The more I read/plan this swap, the more excited I get lol.

WolfGT

I think you will just be chasing your tail trying to do a pro/con list to decide on the ford/chevy path. It will depend on who you talk to and their loyalties. Both have great benefits and depending on how you treat them and how you maintain them will greatly determine their reliability. I have had the same 5.0 in 2 cars and about to put it in my Miata and it has never left me stranded. But not everyone can say that. There are so many different version of each, ...... there is no definitive right or wrong. Mine is the older carbed version. Some people don't like that, but it is clean and easy to work on. None of that computer stuff. Good luck, have fun with it.

charchri4

No less reliable than a Camaro or a Mustang. There are several guys on this forum that have been driving conversions for years and years just fine.

Saturday I'm driving mine 3 hours north to autocross and the next weekend a 5 day get away 6 hours north on lake superior. I drive mine nearly every day to work 70 miles round trip. It's just like any other car. You take care of it and it takes care of you.

Lots of threads on Ford vs Chevy. I would have done a Ford had I not already owned my donor. Weight is a non issue there is no advantage one way or the other. The Ford engine is a little heavier than the GM but the GM trans is a little heavier and for what you are going to do it makes no difference. 300 ft lbs of torque makes 75 lbs go away real fast.

In a nutshell Ford is cheaper, easier and after 20+ years of converting them I would think there are more of them around. You get a few more native ponies with a GM but you pay dearly for it. Have you seen this thread?

https://www.v8miata.net/engine-perfo...-02-miata-612/

or this one

https://www.v8miata.net/engine-perfo...ivetrain-1014/

and don't miss the videos here

https://www.v8miata.net/general-miat...s2-vs-ls3-828/

Man if you can watch those videos and still want to do a Honda you need serious help!

charchri4

So you tell me which is better...
Ford

Or GM LSx

And my all time personal favorite V8 Miata video...

Lemayilleur

All right, you guys did convince me not to even think about the Honda swap anymore, and instead have made me rethink about the ford.

I'm now leaning toward the Ford 5.0 swap w/ Martin kit... I've already bought Keith Tanner's "how to build a performance Miata book, and plan onr eading throught it. Are there other things I should read and learn about?

I'm planning to take the Miata apart this winter, to look up what it really looks like under there tp see if the car is worth a project like this. Anything I should have to everything go smooth?

I have another question that is probably very debatable again... Let say someone managed to do a perfect planning, and has gathered all of the parts needed for the ford swap. How long would it take to go from stock Miata, to v8 powered Miata? I've red throught a lot of your blog charchri4, and I too had noticed how most poeople swap extended over months/YEARS.

WolfGT

I seen one that was done over a week, but he obviously had done it before and was a professional. Mine is taking a lot longer than I thought mainly because it is taking much longer than expected just to get parts.

charchri4

Burn out videos gets them every time!
You will never wish you had less power and I'm sooo glad you ditched the Honda idea!

Yes buy Martians build book. monstermiata.com Click store and just get the book. Even doing an LS build I found it very helpful. And this thread of course https://www.v8miata.net/general-miat...nfo-fords-779/

Most important thing to look for in your car is rust and this is the time to be fussy. You want the cleanest chassis possible.

Time? LOL! On the side of my blog are numbers that are pretty accurate. But I did a lot more than I needed to by seam welding the entire car and stripping my Camaro added over a month to my build. Also I spent many hours staring at problems figuring out on how to solve them that you won't have to do. Good advice above - or in the other thread I can't remember - but don't get in a hurry, it's a marathon not a sprint. It will probably take longer than you think and cost more than you think. But don't let that stop you...

The good news is if you do Martians Ford kit and use Jasons wiring McCully Racing Motors- There's no Replacement for Displacement. you will never be stuck waiting on parts or have to figure out how to fabricate something. But as a novice with a wrench things will go a little slower for you. So all that said to answer your question I would think if you start taking it apart when the snow flys and you spend a couple nights a week and most weekends at it, you should have no trouble rolling her out when the snow is gone in the spring.

WolfGT

Just so you don't get your expectations set incorrectly (sorry charchri4), but the above statement isn't quite correct. I started the purchase process with Martin (MonsterMiata) at the end of July and I am still waiting on 3 parts. The quality of what you get is top notch, but he is not exactly the fastest in turn around time. But if you are going to get all your parts before you start, this shouldn't be an issue.

charchri4

Bummer. Is he still struggling with headers? I hope it isn't holding you up too much. 3 months stuck is way too long!

tbone heller

1. Research
2. Choose what set-up you want & what kit.
3. Purchase engine, trans. & differential. Clean, rebuild, detail , & store.
4. Purchase things not included in the "kit" such as oil, antifreeze, hoses, ect.
5. Save a lot of money for the unexpected things. An underfunded project rarely gets completed.
6. Order the kit.
7. Do not tear apart a perfectly good car until you have completed the first 7 steps.

Lemayilleur

So, once again... My clutch (stock) has to be changed, ALL of the 100,000KM maintenance are coming up. The VLSD dif(stock) has started to act up. All in all, my stock NA could potentially cost me almost 2000$+ just to keep in it line in a near future. Rough $ estimate, but still - nothing I do for the stock 1.6l(and it's drivetrain) is an investment toward the v8 swap...

I'm really starting to lean toward just investing right up into a ford v8 swap. My goal would be to have just the minimal at first: a v8 powered miata. And upgrade the rest along the way.

Began to gather info on what I'll need. Added that ito my blog for the hell of it. My "blog" very rough thought... More like space for me to brainstorm and dream at the moment.

Charchri4's inspires me!

http://lemayilleurle93.blogspot.ca/2...0-v8-swap.html

MRM331

Hi Francis (or do you go by Frank?"),

I looked at your blog, it looks pretty good. You've done your reading which is a good thing. A lot of people jump into these things without taking advantage of the huge amount of research that is available beforehand. I started reading up on V8 swaps about 3 years before I started my first one. Knowing what you're getting into ahead of time, and having everything ready and set to go BEFORE taking your car off the road can help prevent the 5 + year builds you've been seeing.

As far as lead time and Martin goes, I'm guilty of the same thing. I have at least three harness customers waiting over 2 months at this point. The reason for this is that like many of the perceived "large" Miata vendors we are only doing the Miata thing as a side business. I myself am a full-time teacher in the middle of a graduate program with a 2 year old an a 2 week old. I turn out my TFI kits in under a week since I can sneak in building one of those in 30 minutes after my kids go to sleep but full harness conversions are not as easy to get done. Martin also has a full time business that pays the bills although he gets a little more time. Some of the suspension builders are the same.
For this reason I always recommend that people plan out their builds at least 6 months before hand. Doing so gives everyone more than enough lead time and gives you the chance to get the engine and other components cleaned up or rebuilt and ready to go.

A few more things:
Differential-I'm pretty sure that Ford 7.5's with limited slip were sold in Canada. There are plenty of them here in the north east. Everywhere else in the US they are pretty hard to find but in the snow belt you can find them. I'm sure that Canada is the same. Look for thunderbirds with "E" axle codes and then look at the diff itself and make sure it says "7.5" on it.
Suspension- DO NOT go with AGX shocks. They will last 6 months or 1000 miles, whichever comes sooner on a V8. I recommend the VMaxxx track pack as an entry level setup. For around $800 you get adjustable shocks, 500 pound shocks, bumpstops and even helper springs. It really can't be beat for the price. Considering that AGX's are $400 without the springs and that you can sell off or ask Martin to take off the cost of the kit springs the VMaxx are a great buy. If you have the money the best is a custom set up from Fat Cat for around $1800. Buy the VMaxxes and then sell them for $500 or $600 when you're ready to move up.

Good luck,
-Jason

Lemayilleur

Thanks for the added input Jason.

I have couple question unanswered at the moment.

I'll be taking a lot of time to shop around the web and locally to get an idea of the price for the parts I need...

1. Should I look for a donor Mustang? Would it save me time to do so?
   
2. What's the needed "red 23-tooth speedometer drive gear" about?
   
3. Also, what's about your(Jason) recommendation on the "PM-type starter"? Does the ford engine not have it's own starter?

charchri4

For question 1 I can chime in a little. A lot of guys prefer explorer engines because they are less likely to be beat on than a mustang and they have better heads and intake. But be sure you get the GT40 heads not the GT40P otherwise Martians headers won't work. Jason wrote me a long book on this very subject here:

https://www.v8miata.net/introduction...-745/#post4343

I have to leave question 2 and 3 to the real Ford expert!

MRM331

The red gear has the correct number of teeth to make the speedometer work correctly with a 23" tall tire, a T-5 trans, a 3.27 rear and a Miata speedometer. You can buy one at Summit or LateModelRestoration.

A Mustang does have a starter but it's the older "can" style with an external firewall mounted solenoid and wound coils inside. Its much heavier, larger in diameter and not as strong as the later permanent magnet type starters that Ford switched to. Since both are interchangeable and the later connects directly to the Mazda's connections the PM one is a no brainer.
Another advantage of the PM starters is their smaller size which gives them more air room between the header and the starter and more room for a heat shield. Other have not had this problem but on my first build the can starter would heat soak and not start the car until it had cooled down for an hour.

The Explorer moter is a good choice but you'll need to make sure it's a GT40, not GT40p headed engine to work with Martin's headers. You'll be able to use the block and internals, the heads, the valve covers, the intake, the injectors, the throttle and the mass air meter. You'll need a Mustang fuel rail (exits on wrong side), Mustang EGR spacer bored to 65mm (Explorer is an elbow, Mustang one is only 55mm stock), Mustang oil pan and pickup, Mustang distributor (Explorer has electronic ignition) and if you want to go with the Mustang from accessories you'll need everything from the cam chain cover forward including the cover itself. You can go with the Explorer accessories and gain another 2 inches of room but making the AC work is a little more trouble. You can also go with a megasquirt or equivalent and keep the electronic ignition if you want as well.

The reason the explorer is still a good idea even though the above list looks long is that most of those things would be replaced/upgraded anyhow from stock during the course of a mild build. The heads and intake alone will get you up to 300 or so horsepower over a Mustang's 225. You'll need a stock Mustang cam as well or an aftermarket one. The Explorer cam is made for low range only.

Hope that helps,

-Jason

Lemayilleur

Thanks again for all the input. I'm trying to decypher all those words (being french first doesn't make it any easier).

You've brought up another of my concern: A/C. My Miata currently has no A/C, but I would love to have it. Does adding A/C along the v8 swap adds much more work/headaches?

I'm now debating getting an Explorer engine and tearing it apart. Sounds like it could be a very very good learning experience, but would post-pone the swap itself.

Whats a good fan base to read and learn about the ford v8 itself(other than here :P).

charchri4

The good news is the small block ford has been around for ever and is pertty basic and forgiving as engines go. I rebuilt my first one at age 16 in 1976 with no engine stand, very basic hand tools and just enough knowledge from a library book to be dangerous. It it really nice to have a stand and it does take a couple of special tools like a ring compressor and valve spring compressor but nothing very expensive to add to the tool box. You could have a machine shop assemble your heads and block too if you wanted to.

Handy to have this guy

1000 Lb. Engine Stand

With the internet you can get on any of a number of Mustang forums to find parts and info on it. I joined several last winter when I was planning a Ford build. I also purchased a couple of books. This one was not very good for learning how to build budget horse power but it was a pretty good basic rebuild book.


This one is almost the exact same book with better photos in it. Don't buy more than one book from the same author!


For the most part the priciples of rebuilding a 302 are exactly the same as any other engine so check out the library for an engine book to see what they have too.

Adding A/C to a NA Miata is a piece of cake. Lots of guys are parting them out and you can get all the stuff you need for a few hundred bucks or less. You'll be needing this book too...