We all know big power, this thread is for big brakes!
 

I knew my car treated the use of the center pedal as a suggestion that is mostly ignored but didn’t realize just how bad my brakes really are until I hit the track with V8droptops Mazdaspeed 3. The difference was unbelievable! Nicks' 3 hauls it down incredibly fast and smooth and made my car feel like the flintstone mobile dragging my feet for brakes.
http://i59.tinypic.com/2s8rb7m.jpg
The 3 goes good too with a nice smoky burn out!

So I’m back to looking at brakes again. I say again because I’ve looked at brakes before and there are a lot of great kits out there:
4 Wheel Big Brake Kit - V8 Roadsters
Flyin' Miata : Chassis : Big brake kits
Miata Big Brake Kits
Miata Brakes - Brake Kits and Complete Packages - Mazda Performance Parts

But all these kits have 2 problems. They are terribly expensive and they don’t use parts I could get at any auto parts store. Like if I need brake pads in the Yukon or something… The other thing I don’t like is most of them are only 11” rotors and with 17” wheels there is no reason to limit rotors that small.

With that as a back drop I am on a quest for big cheap brakes. I have probably looked at 500 different brake options and as much as I'd like to redrill some 14+" 4 or 6 pot brakes I have found if it says Corvette, Brembo or Wilwood on it the easy to find parts and cheap idea is lost. So this is what I have so far:

Top of the list is the master cylinder. The stock 96 Miata master is 7/8" bore and the newer sport brakes have a 15/16 pumper. Word on the street says the cheap way out of this is a master from a 96 Explorer. It is a 1 1/16 bore and bolts right up the Miata brake booster. 12 bucks from the you pull it yard or 32 bucks from Rock Auto.

Next up is the rotors. Options here are to redrill or find 4x100s with the right offset for a Miata spindle. Lots of guys go with VW Corrado plates which is great but I’d like to go bigger than 11” so I like the looks of this little gem. That is the rotor from a 2007 Mini Cooper turbo that is 12.4” with the right offset, and at 22 bucks shipped we now have rotors and master for 100 bucks. So far so good.

Rear calipers are a sticking point for lots of folks because they want to keep a full functioning parking brake. Drawing on my deep knowledge of Camaros I just happen to know that 94-97 F bodies use the exact same parking brake set up as the NA Miata does. Stock rear 96 Miata piston area is 1.22", the newer sports are 1.48" and the F body is 1.95" with the pads about the same increase in size. Since F body guys swap them for the 98-02 pots these calipers can be had for the price of shipping and a tip. 30 bucks a pair tops.

That leaves front calipers which for now I don’t have a good solution for. My first pass is to use a 98-02 Camaro caliper because they are light, cheap and huge. The problem is the Mini rotor is 10mm thinner than the Camaro rotor and when the pad wears down it could be an issue. I’m still researching that and brake lines.

So that’s my story. Post up what you have, what you want, what you like and what you don’t like and lets call this a brake thread!

For future conclusions if this thread gets as long as I hope it will...

I am using the kit offered by Monster Miata. They seem to work pretty good. I have not driven it since I installed the adjustable proportioning valve.

I am wondering if the -10mm rotor difference is going to be very significant. I'd venture a guess the F-body caliper had enough travel to make up for it. Fluid volume in the master cylinder may have to be checked from time to time as the pads wear, but I've seen enough cars with pads worn down till they are using the pad backing plate as a brake to tell me calipers have extra travel built into them.

If you get ahold of a Mini Rotor, I have 2 F-body calipers we can test the theory with.

My opinion is of course, overkill. Willwood forged superlite 6's would pretty much stop anything, and would be plenty for your car. Which, btw, is a blast to drive.

I had the 3 on BIR today. Super fun, lit those brakes up good again today, and had a lot of fun. My father came with his Challenger, he made huge leaps on the track between the beginning and end. We had 7 25 min sessions today, a lot of track time. Bottom line, the larger brakes are nice for late braking, and help clean up some mistakes as well, and didn't experience any fade.

W
 

Not yet installed in the car, but I have Martin's Big Brake Kit. Custom mounting brackets, Wildwood rotors and front calipers, RX-7 rear calipers. I plan to add stainless brake lines and a manual proportioning valve. I rode in Martin's shop car a few years ago and it definitely stopped hard.

I have an RX-7 power brake booster unit with matching master cylinder; I've forgotten the piston size. There was discussion on this potential conversion several years ago on another forum and several people thought, while the booster unit is larger the size of the master cylinder would actually cause an increase in brake effort. Jason is currently planning this conversion; I'm watching with great interest.

The only concern I would have with larger rotors is the increase in unsprung weight. We all know these cars are sensitive to this, and I think adding a couple inches or so in diameter will increase rotor weight by a surprising percentage. The "power-robbing" extra inertia of larger rotors will likely be a non-issue on these cars; there's power to spare on most builds. However, for a street car where the tires and wheels we are using are already substantially heavier than stock, adding more rotor weight into the equation might really depreciate ride quality. However, the 10mm reduction in thickness on the Mini Cooper rotors would surely help mitigate this concern.

I'm not worried about the pistons pushing out it would be easy to make a shim to take up some of that. What worries me is where the pads are mounted in the slides. See where the arrows are here?
http://i57.tinypic.com/xlgrdi.jpg

I loose 5mm per side where the pads clip in the calipers there. So when the pads are about half gone they will be to the point where they could be completly gone in a F body. I think you are right Nick it's just a matter of getting a rotor and testing it.

Good point on the weight but the way it is now would be dangerous on a big track. Actually it's not that safe on an autox either!

I could feel the difference between the 15 and 17s I think but part of that was I added about 100 lbs in body art too. No question the 17s weigh a good 8 to 10 lbs more than the 15s and while it rides better on the street no one serious about performance would ever take on that weight. I would imagine the aluminum caliper would not add very much but the over kill steel bracket and rotor will add a good 5 lbs I'm sure.

I know it's kind of lame but she looks pretty wimpy with the tiny brakes in the big wheels too...
http://i59.tinypic.com/2qxotpk.jpg

Choosing the right brake kit is tough. There isn't a single one out there that's perfect, IMO.

You can cobble together a variety of stock parts that will fit and look good. But don't expect them to perform as well as something like Wilwoods. The rotors might look similar, but that's about as far as it goes.

The purpose of calipers and rotors is to turn rotational energy into thermal energy. The better it can do that, the better your brakes will be and the longer they will last. Once you have all that heat, you need materials that can withstand it, and a way to get rid of it. Stock rotors just can't handle threshold braking lap after lap. You'll be replacing them 2-3 times a season. That makes the expensive Wilwoods a bit cheaper.

I really like a quality 2 piece rotor. Unfortunately, not many kits use them at all 4 corners. The FM, V8R, and 949 kits use stock rear rotors. For track use, I want more than that.

I like the GWR kit, because it uses a good racing rotor and racing calipers at all 4 corners. I don't like them because the rotors come from Australia, and are not a common stock item. It might take a month to get replacements.

I'll probably use the GWR kit, and then buy a spare pair of rotors for my own shelf stock. Calipers, pads, MC, lines, etc, are all pretty common parts. If you can't find them locally, you can usually get them from Summit Racing in 48 hours.

LOL found a great shot from Sunday trying to slow down...
http://i60.tinypic.com/3winn.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/33dw6tu.jpg

if you want to borrow the fbody fronts before I go, lmk, I can send then your way.

It seems to me that big brake kits make a lot of sense for the more high end/high HP cars, or for anyone who plans to run their car hard on a track. The stock Miata brakes in good condition with the right pads will pretty much lock 'em up on a single, hard stop, so in my mind that makes them decent street brakes. I think what is gained with the BB kits is mostly less fade under constant, hard use.

I plan to install Martin's BB kit on my '94 build with the healthy 347. However, for the lower HP cars just serving as street toys (such as my '90 Miata with a pretty mild Ford 5.0L), it would seem worthwhile to investigate upgrading the stock 1990-1993 brakes with later, bigger/better factory brakes that are basically a bolt-on. I think some of the later "Sport" model in particular were supposed to be significantly better. I've read a bit some about people doing this, but have never found an exact parts list or write-up on how to perform this factory parts swap. If anyone has knowledge of this lower-cost upgrade alternative, I, and probably others, would like to hear about it.

I know Jim is not looking to go this route, so I hope this is not off-topic for this thread. However, it seems logical to consolidate a full range of upgrade options for brakes in one place for people considering all their options.

Oh yeah that is a bolt on deal Steve. 02-05 sport brakes add .6" in rotor size and have bigger calipers. It's not a lot of difference but it is cheap and you keep a real parking brake. The only thing you have to do is trim the dust shields for the bigger rotors and I think that is only in back. From there go to Rock auto and for about 400 bucks it's a done deal.

I really don't know what I am going to do yet. I pulled a front wheel off my sons Firebird and did some measuring between the 2 cars. What struck me was the weight difference between the rotors. The F body is 19.8 lbs and the stock Miata one is half that. So maybe the 11 inchers are not so bad after all...

So, new rotors and calipers at each corner. Do you also need 02-05 caliper mounting brackets, and any other parts from the later year car? ( Confession: I haven't worked on brakes much, usually took the lazy way out and had someone else do it).

This sounds like a no-brainer, moderate upgrade when it is time to service the brakes anyway.

I found back in the day that upgrading the stock 1990-93 brakes to the later 1994-97 parts to be the minimum acceptable braking for even a street V8 Miata. To do this you need:

Front:
1994 "loaded" (with pads and bracket) or "semi-loaded" (bracket only) calipers
1994 Rotors
1994 Pads

Rear:
1994 Rotors
1994 Pads
1994 Hardware Pack
1994 hangers
(Rear calipers are the same, the hardware pack allows you to mount the larger pads in them)

Since that time the even larger 2002 and up "sport" parts have come down in price to the point where they are only a few buck more than the 1994 parts. If I were to do a 1990-93 donor today I'd go right to the NB parts. The only difference is that you also need the rear caliper as it's larger than the 1990-2001 part.

The best way to get your hands on all this is to look for the best price on the loaded calipers online and then turn in your original parts as "cores". Usually turning in one NA/NB Miata part as a core for another is not a big issue as long as you do not make a stink out of it.

-Jason

Looking at replacement parts for the factory Sport brakes I see some rotors that are drilled, slotted, or both. They don't cost much more, maybe $10 to $20 each.. Anyone have an opinion as to whether they offer any real benefit beyond the bling factor?

I like good quality steel blanks myself.

I didn't catch that you were going from pre 93 to sports. For that I don't know about the extra parts needed so better follow Jasons list. I know when I looked at it going from 96 to sports was a straight bolt on deal.

Use blanks only. Drilled/Slotted/Dimpled rotors are only one small step removed from "caliper covers" in my mind. They offer no benefit and are actually weaker and less effective than non-drilled rotors. They will only look "cool" to someone who has no idea what's going on.

-Jason

Kit for sale
 

Been looking around for a kit myself. Someone here locally in Houston is selling this:

"Big" brake setup for a Miata. Has literally less than 100 miles on all parts, except the calipers. The kit includes. . .
-1.8L calipers(4)
-Lines (soft)(4)
-Axxis Ultimate brake pads(4)
-1.8 "sport" 11" rear rotors(2) and VW Corrado front rotors(2)
-Brackets/hardware as seen here . . . Miata M-Tuned Big Rotor Kit
$275 for everything

I already have 1.8 calipers on my 92. Going to the track for first time on the 30th with pretty much stock setup. Im sure after that experience with street pads, I will be able to justify spending some $$$ on a good track set up. So many options out there, I want to do it right the first time.

Good info in this thread.

Ahem, I beg your pardon, sir! No need to make me look foolishly inexperienced. I have several decades of proof I am quite capable of achieving that status without assistance. :D

Seriously, without the collective knowledge of owner forums like this, trial and error would have far more of the latter than success with the former. It lets all of us learn a few of the hard lessons on someone else's dime. So Jason (and everyone else), thanks and keep telling it like it is!

I have decided to upgrade my '90 NA to the bigger/better, 2001 - 2005 factory Sport brakes. I tried to find the best parts I could at the best price. In case anyone else is considering this upgrade, I'm attaching images showing part numbers, descriptions, promotional codes, and pricing as of 10/26/14.

I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.

The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.

Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.

I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.

So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.

As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the arse enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.

Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.

Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.

Perfect timing on this as I'm considering the same upgrade. Thanks for the detailed info.

Big Brakes
 

Kits are great but... I went a longer route with bigger challenges and a lot of guidance from CVX 20. Four pot RX-7 calipers, Probe hubs, fabricated brackets. As yet untested.

What size rotor on the rear? Also, what did you do for axles in the rear, does the probe hub keep the miata spline size?

Cheers,
nick

I used the Probe rear hubs on the front, part # 712119 at Rock Auto.. Closeout at $65.47 a pair incl shipping. Same as front RX-7 hubs but w/out anti-lock sensors.

Front disks are 1994 RX-7 at 11.57 diameter. Part #JBR761 at Rock Auto: Closeout...$37.98 a pair incl. shipping.

Rear axles are FFR items.

Rear disks are 10.236 inch diameter from 2001 Honda Prelude 2.2L. Part #JBR798 at Rock Auto: Closeout.. $29.53 a pair including shipping.

Rear hubs are re-drilled T-Bird with machine work. CVX 20 (Mike) has a wealth of knowledge, experience and has done a lot of research into this conversion. His blog on this is here:

MiataV8 Conversion: Five Lug Conversion

Good to know. I've got the same setup in general. Hubs are RX-7 ABS fronts, and Ford Mustang Cobra rears w/MarK VIII/FFR axles I'm assembling, trying to work out an ABS solution. I actually just picked up the FF stuff the other day, its not quite in yet.

My Rotors thus far are Hyundai Sonota and Mazda-3 2.3 or Mazdaspeed 3 fronts, haven't decided. But I have the wheel for large rotors, and I just need to match them to the willwood calipers I have selected.

Are you using the stock rear brake?

I am using the stock rear calipers for now. Once I get a few miles on the car, I will see if I want/need any changes.

Can you fab more (or at least post dimensions) of that rx7 brake bracket ?

Sorry I can't fab more. I haven't had the time lately to even finish my exhaust, but I will provide the best instructions & dimensions I can. I started with 3/8 inch hard plastic to make a template and cut and drilled it to match the holes on the caliper. Then positioned the caliper to mark where I needed the holes to line up with the bracket. Got the plastic one to work and then made the next two out of steel.

If you open up the photo of the bracket I will describe the basic dimensions. Length is 7 3/4 inches. Widest point on left of pic is 2 1/2 inches. Widest point on right side of pic is 1 1/2 inches. In the pic, the top left hole and both right hand holes are tapped to accept bolts thru the caliper and Miata bracket. The bottom left hole in the pic is not tapped and requires a nut and bolt.

If you can enlarge the photo proportionally so it is 7 3/4 inches at the longest point, I believe you will have a decent template.

One other thing. Installation of the bolts is sequence specific. You have to start one of the bolts into the Miata bracket, then one into the caliper. Then swing the caliper up around the disk to get the rest in.

Jim

I use C4 Corvette brakes, 12" front, 11.5" rear.

Oh man you're killing me! Do you have photos of it? Did you redrill to 4x100 or convert to 5 bolt? Wait, are you even using the vette rotors? Show me the way captain!!!

You have to make adapter brackets to mount the Vette calipers & then transfer drill the Miata 4 bolt pattern into the Vette rotor hubs. If we ever decide on larger than 275 tires will have to convert to 5 bolt & then would not have to drill 4 bolt pattern into Vette rotors.

I did not go to big. 13" rotors with Magnesium Alcon calipers

Very nice! What size wheels? Figure you can probably squeeze 16's on, but are probably on 17's.

What year car corndog? I'd sure like to see the rest of it!

Im gonna go with 17's, its a 99. Still working on it but ill get some pics posted up.

The Miata is famous for being very sensitive to unsprung weight. I'd like to hear an honest assessment from those who have installed the really big (12"+) rotors, how much did it degrade the ride quality? I know you can tell a significant difference when installing a tire only a couple pounds heavier, and some of those big rotors have got to be heavy.

I know a lot of these high end brake systems are using high quality, very light calipers, which helps.

Well this probably won't help one bit but I did greatly increase my unsprung weight so will post it.

I went from 15x9s that weigh 34.8 lbs ea to 17x10s that weigh 49.5 lbs each (tires included). No question I can feel the difference but the biggest difference is the car handles ruff roads so much better. I'm sure it has more to do with tire size but the weight may smooth out the bumps some too. When I first drove the bigger feet I could feel a little more mass in the steering feel but it was so slight and I was looking for it so I can't say it's an issue. I'm sure it made a difference in performance but I can't tell either in an autocross or just tooling around with it. Wouldn't care anyway I like the monster truck look!

I'm looking at 12" Camaro rotors now so if I do that I can probably post something meaningful. 4th gen F body front rotors are 21 lbs to the stock Miatas 10 lbs. I'd love to go 13s just because the stock 10" are so small in the wheels they look completely pathetic!
http://i59.tinypic.com/2qxotpk.jpg

I'll take 12" or larger brakes all day long on a road course. Unsprung weight is only one of many suspension criteria.

I'm taking this option! Have you installed them yet? Good to go (stop) so to speak?

I'm wondering though, if we are sending back say 90-93 cores, and they take them as 2001-2005 cores, am I going to get your old (rebuilt) NA stuff???

^^ Mike if you need a 5% off at Rock I've one you can have that is up in Feb.

This is excellent information. Like I said earlier in this thread, the Sport brake stuff is now close enough in price to the 1994+ stuff that upgrading a 1990-93 with 1994+ parts is pointless. I still don't know if I'd upgrade a 1994+ non-sport brake car to sport brake stuff it was only used on the street but I would upgrade a 1990-93 directly to sport brakes all around.

-Jason

People have been exchanging 1990-93 cores for 1994-97 cores and even rear Miata calipers for 1991 RX-7 calipers (for Martin's big brake kit) for a while with success. I don't plan on the core return when I price this out. That way the return is a "bonus".

I'm about to do this with my rear 1994 brakes. They have 190K miles on them at this point and need a rebuild. I looked into reman 1994 calipers and found the sport calipers to be within $20. The rotors are the same ($16 or so at RockAuto). The pads are a few bucks more expensive but nothing that breaks the bank.

One note of caution is that it seems the Hawk Black compound pads are not offered in the sport brake size. This bummed me out as I've really become comfortable with that compound all around at the track. The blues seem a little too aggressive and HP+ pads get cooked in a few laps. I'm planning on trying the newer HT-10 pads as they seem to be a newer version of the blacks.

-Jason

+1 to that ^^.

HP + in my F bodies did not dissipate heat well either though I liked them a lot for autox. Ebc yellows did a little better on the big track with the big dog.

It's really quite a bummer as I really felt the Blacks were just right. I originally went with Blues when I grew out of BP10 "Smart" pads and liked how they performed with track tires in the dry but they scared the %^&* out of me when I went out in the wet with RS3's on. They also majorly dust metallic dust which will rust etch itself to your wheels. The blacks are just grippy enough while not being overly dusty. I've never had them fade even after 60+ minute track sessions.

Ironically the brakes as they now are work fine. The only reason I want to swap the sport brakes on the back is that to get the current rears to work as well as they are I had to throw a lot of balance back there to balance out the big fronts. Doing this seems to be overwhelming the 1994 rears to the point where the paint is constantly burned off the pads and calipers and the rotors are changing colors (like blueish). I figure the larger thermal mass of the sport rotors should help dissipate this heat better and the larger swept area of the pads and larger bore piston should let me dial the amount of bias going back to them down a bit. While I have the system open I am planning on also replacing the stock master cylinder/booster with Mazda 929 parts and plumbing out the ABS system since it's been inoperative for years anyhow.

In addition to this little brake upgrade this winter/spring I'm also upgrading the heads and rockers to aluminum (AFR 185's/Scorpion Endurance 1.72's), repairing rocker rust, having a custom differential built (True-Track with 3.08), having my trans completely rebuilt with a custom 5th gear cluster (.86 fifth), redesigning my oil cooler system, installing frog arms, rebuilding my front Wilwoods, replacing all four wheel bearings, replacing the CV's with new and possibly upgrading (again) the suspension (found a used Fat Cat system). I'm hoping the above will give me a car I can reliably flog 3 to 4 times a year at the track for 250 - 300 miles each time and possibly hit 145 mph with at said track days if my balls will let me.

-Jason

LOL love that wit of yours! ^ speeling... the red pen is out teacher!

If you don't look down 145 is pretty easy. It's amazing how it creeps up on you too!

If it creeps up on you, you need more powa! :sign0184:

Oh no she still pulls real hard at 135.

I don't have video of it but it will push past 140 at the top end of 4th but no way would I let go of the wheel to shift to 5th. It wouldn't surprise me if 165 was in the car but it sure isn't in the driver!

North of 130 I start getting some lightness in the wheel. The nose job was partly to help that (I hope). Also getting rid of the headlight cover intake to reduce air getting under the hood that did not pass through the rad. Next is going to be installing either the factory plastic cover underneath the motor or make my own "flat bottom" front. Looking to reduce lift on the front w/o going rice/ricky racer. Trying to keep it semi stealth.

Hmm...do we have a thread on aerodynamics yet?....:sign0184:

Capital idea! There is a couple of really good ones on other forums but nobody running real power that I know of.

I know this for sure. If you buy a wing just because it was 56 bucks and needed a lot of work, and you fix it up and hang it on your car just because you have never rebuilt a wing and you think it looks cool, well it might be a good idea to consider the areo aspect of it. I thought it would be fun just to toss it on for car shows and pay day Fridays but big surprise that damn thing works so well it dented the trunk lid at 100!
http://i60.tinypic.com/b9f2pl.jpg

Got some tax season cash. Finally decided on my plan of action.

My 1992 already has 1994 1.8 upgraded brakes. They faded fast at the track. I'm gonna buy the 949racing front and rear big brake kit. Ill keep my 1994 calipers and upgrade to the larger Corrado front rotors and Miata sport rear rotors and add the DOT 4 fluid, total is $419.91 shipped from 949. Ill also add some Carbotech XP10's to the front and XP8's to the rear.

Sounds like a solid economical plan with zero fabrication.