Yet another new member
02-21-2010, 08:35 PM
#1
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Yet another new member
New member here, with a serious interest in buying an already converted V8 Miata, or contracting with a builder for a custom project. I am brand-agnostic (Ford Windsor, Chevy SBC or LSx, Cadillac, Infiniti, BMW, whatever) but am leaning towards the Chevy LS series. I have never owned a Miata, stock or modified, but am currently test-driving a wide range of local stock candidates for purchase, with the purpose of gaining experience with a baseline vehicle.
My background is Datsun Z’s – from the 1970’s. My project Z is part 1972, part 1978 – with a big block Chevy engine and various mods (Brodix Race Rite oval-port heads, Cam Motion mechanical roller cam). The Datsun has been a long journey – since around 1999. For several years it has been sitting forlorn and unloved in my garage, waiting while I muster the effort for a last push to finish the latest engine tuning. But that car is too wild for anything approaching street duty. It’s essentially a tube-chassis inside a stripped tin can… loud, hot, cramped and tremendously thirsty. More details can be found on the “HybridZ” forum, where I’ve been a regular. Indeed, HybridZ started out much in the same vein as this new V8 Miata forum… as a refuge from brand purism and from denigration of “farmer John pushrod engines”.
The Miata is a worthy spiritual successor to Datsun 240260-280Z. I would have bought one sooner, were it not for the psychological impediment of a convertible (hardly the most natural choice in the American Midwest!). I kept hoping to find a comparably light fixed-roof RWD car. But while modern cars are becoming both more powerful and more dependable, sadly they are invariably heavier. And while RWD is making at least a partial comeback, it is generally limited to 4000-pounders.
The true cost and labor in engine swaps is not in the swap itself, which after the initial engineering development can in large measure be done almost by recipe, but in the care and feeding of the resulting vehicle, in discovering the various flaws and attending to their solution, and in fixing the next weakest-link after the previous weakest-link is fixed, eventually asymptoting towards a well-balanced vehicle. My hope, somewhat selfishly, is to leave these troubles to some one else!
The infamous “while I’m at it” syndrome quickly turns a basic swap into a combination of full restoration and refitting of the car for what amounts to racing duty. Structural reinforcement, suspension mods, bigger brakes and so forth, make the project not only an interminable jigsaw puzzle and money pit, but eventually render the car unfit for daily driving, unless done by very careful hands! For a 90’s car (Miata) this ought to be easier than for a 70’s car (Datsun), since the latter requires lots of rust abatement and stock component renewal, while a 90’s car should be OK in that department. On the other hand, many stock Datsun 280Z components, such as the differential, are adequate even for a very healthy V8. And the Z’s have very large engine compartments, which simplify accessory mounting, exhaust/steering-linkage clearances, and so forth.
I found this forum from a link at the turbo Miata forum; you guys evidently discussed the desirability of such a link, here: https://www.v8miata.net/site-tips-suggestions-9/how-introduce-people-site-8/. My one experience with turbos was a 1987 Mark III Turbo Supra… a 3600 lb car with a 3.0L engine and a single turbo with stock boost of around 6 psi. This was rather underwhelming. Peak hp was fine for my tastes back then, but turbo lag was abysmally frustrating, especially with the air conditioner running. Wiser hands remarked that I became prejudiced against turbos unfairly, having sampled too narrowly and rushed to premature judgment. They may be right, but I like acceleration in any gear and in any rpm, and am too lazy to be bothered with spontaneous downshifts and fancy clutch-work. So whereas I do respect the persons who achieve great hp/torque numbers with forced induction, and admire what in many instances is a truly elegant engineering solution, as a driver I prefer the large-displacement V8. My big block has yet to achieve its potential, as it lacks proper tuning, is probably running way too rich, and by now the rings are hopelessly washed. But even so, it pulls ferociously hard right off idle, and never gives the wheezing, stultified complaint of a turbo engine forced by an inept driver to operate far off-design.
So whereas the 00’s was my decade of the V8 Z, hopefully the 10’s will be my decade of the V8 Miata. I look forward to interactions on this forum, and hopefully eventually in person!
My background is Datsun Z’s – from the 1970’s. My project Z is part 1972, part 1978 – with a big block Chevy engine and various mods (Brodix Race Rite oval-port heads, Cam Motion mechanical roller cam). The Datsun has been a long journey – since around 1999. For several years it has been sitting forlorn and unloved in my garage, waiting while I muster the effort for a last push to finish the latest engine tuning. But that car is too wild for anything approaching street duty. It’s essentially a tube-chassis inside a stripped tin can… loud, hot, cramped and tremendously thirsty. More details can be found on the “HybridZ” forum, where I’ve been a regular. Indeed, HybridZ started out much in the same vein as this new V8 Miata forum… as a refuge from brand purism and from denigration of “farmer John pushrod engines”.
The Miata is a worthy spiritual successor to Datsun 240260-280Z. I would have bought one sooner, were it not for the psychological impediment of a convertible (hardly the most natural choice in the American Midwest!). I kept hoping to find a comparably light fixed-roof RWD car. But while modern cars are becoming both more powerful and more dependable, sadly they are invariably heavier. And while RWD is making at least a partial comeback, it is generally limited to 4000-pounders.
The true cost and labor in engine swaps is not in the swap itself, which after the initial engineering development can in large measure be done almost by recipe, but in the care and feeding of the resulting vehicle, in discovering the various flaws and attending to their solution, and in fixing the next weakest-link after the previous weakest-link is fixed, eventually asymptoting towards a well-balanced vehicle. My hope, somewhat selfishly, is to leave these troubles to some one else!
The infamous “while I’m at it” syndrome quickly turns a basic swap into a combination of full restoration and refitting of the car for what amounts to racing duty. Structural reinforcement, suspension mods, bigger brakes and so forth, make the project not only an interminable jigsaw puzzle and money pit, but eventually render the car unfit for daily driving, unless done by very careful hands! For a 90’s car (Miata) this ought to be easier than for a 70’s car (Datsun), since the latter requires lots of rust abatement and stock component renewal, while a 90’s car should be OK in that department. On the other hand, many stock Datsun 280Z components, such as the differential, are adequate even for a very healthy V8. And the Z’s have very large engine compartments, which simplify accessory mounting, exhaust/steering-linkage clearances, and so forth.
I found this forum from a link at the turbo Miata forum; you guys evidently discussed the desirability of such a link, here: https://www.v8miata.net/site-tips-suggestions-9/how-introduce-people-site-8/. My one experience with turbos was a 1987 Mark III Turbo Supra… a 3600 lb car with a 3.0L engine and a single turbo with stock boost of around 6 psi. This was rather underwhelming. Peak hp was fine for my tastes back then, but turbo lag was abysmally frustrating, especially with the air conditioner running. Wiser hands remarked that I became prejudiced against turbos unfairly, having sampled too narrowly and rushed to premature judgment. They may be right, but I like acceleration in any gear and in any rpm, and am too lazy to be bothered with spontaneous downshifts and fancy clutch-work. So whereas I do respect the persons who achieve great hp/torque numbers with forced induction, and admire what in many instances is a truly elegant engineering solution, as a driver I prefer the large-displacement V8. My big block has yet to achieve its potential, as it lacks proper tuning, is probably running way too rich, and by now the rings are hopelessly washed. But even so, it pulls ferociously hard right off idle, and never gives the wheezing, stultified complaint of a turbo engine forced by an inept driver to operate far off-design.
So whereas the 00’s was my decade of the V8 Z, hopefully the 10’s will be my decade of the V8 Miata. I look forward to interactions on this forum, and hopefully eventually in person!
12-13-2010, 11:00 PM
#3
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
I meant to reply earlier, but somehow kept procrastinating. Anyway, this past summer I bought a completely stock 1991 Miata. It had 120K miles and was in quite decent shape, except for early signs of the usual rocker-panel rust, a discharged A/C and signs of a failing clutch. The clutch has been fixed, and now that car is my daily driver – complete with hard top and snow tires.
Where to go from here? I enjoy the nimble feel and “dartiness on demand” of the NA Miata, but the criticisms of inadequate thrust are definitely merited. The next step is to ride in (and hopefully get a chance to drive) a sampling of already converted cars. I did drive a “mild” turbo – the seller claimed about 150 RWHP – and it had pleasant grunt when fully spooled up, but did have some lag and a very twitchy clutch. I also drove a Ford 5.0 conversion. The seller was a very pleasant fellow with an interesting collection of British roadsters, and while I sincerely wish him the best, that poor car had some serious problems. The transmission (T5) was embarrassingly notchy. The engine was claimed to make around 280 hp, but it would be lucky to make 180. It was a fairly clean conversion, however.
So while I look for other V8 Miatas, I have more motivation to finish my V8 Datsun. Engine is back together and reinstalled into the car. It needs an ignition system and I need to convince myself that the lifters are properly oiling. And no, the Datsun’s engine won’t work in the Miata… it’s a big block.
Oh, and my location: southwest Ohio. But I am frequently on business on the East Coast, from the DC area to Boston, and would be happy to visit any of you fellows not far from the I-95 corridor.
Where to go from here? I enjoy the nimble feel and “dartiness on demand” of the NA Miata, but the criticisms of inadequate thrust are definitely merited. The next step is to ride in (and hopefully get a chance to drive) a sampling of already converted cars. I did drive a “mild” turbo – the seller claimed about 150 RWHP – and it had pleasant grunt when fully spooled up, but did have some lag and a very twitchy clutch. I also drove a Ford 5.0 conversion. The seller was a very pleasant fellow with an interesting collection of British roadsters, and while I sincerely wish him the best, that poor car had some serious problems. The transmission (T5) was embarrassingly notchy. The engine was claimed to make around 280 hp, but it would be lucky to make 180. It was a fairly clean conversion, however.
So while I look for other V8 Miatas, I have more motivation to finish my V8 Datsun. Engine is back together and reinstalled into the car. It needs an ignition system and I need to convince myself that the lifters are properly oiling. And no, the Datsun’s engine won’t work in the Miata… it’s a big block.
Oh, and my location: southwest Ohio. But I am frequently on business on the East Coast, from the DC area to Boston, and would be happy to visit any of you fellows not far from the I-95 corridor.
12-17-2010, 01:34 PM
#4
Administrator
I'm in Allentown, which is easliy reached via the PA turnpike North East extention from I95 outside of Philly. You're more than welcome to stop by and take my Ford 331 for a spin. It's making 280 to the rear wheels so it should be a little closer to the LSx levels your looking at than the other Ford you drove.
-Jason
267.254.6687
mccullyracingmotors@gmail.com
-Jason
267.254.6687
mccullyracingmotors@gmail.com
12-21-2010, 07:34 AM
#5
Super Moderator
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My LSX '01 isn't finished yet and won't be til it warms up a bit here in MD, but I work close to DC and live about 25 miles north, just south of Baltimore. Some day we mid-atlantic to northeast v8 Miata owners will all get together to shoot the **** and check out each others cars. There are enough to get a small group together.
Frank
Frank
01-14-2011, 01:40 PM
#6
Administrator
I know of at least least 5 Fords between S.E. PA and Del. as well as two local Lexus conversions. Ironicaly, I've never seen a LSx conversion in person to date. The local area seems to be pretty "Ford heavy" (maybe I had something to do with that
).
-Jason
).-Jason
02-10-2011, 05:21 PM
#8
V8 Miata Noob
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Newark, DE
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Hey Frank, it's good to hear from you. Glad to hear you're getting close to drivable. Six months is pretty close-right? I thank you again for letting me take pictures of your car for my subframe mods. It isn't the prettiest, but the mods worked and still are. A get together this year would be so cool! Doesn't matter too much where. Keep in touch with us on your progress. Looking forward to see it running.
P.S. I didn't mean to hijack this thread-sorry.
Jim D.
P.S. I didn't mean to hijack this thread-sorry.
Jim D.
10-26-2015, 09:46 AM
#10
V8 Miata Fanatic
Holy cow that was a heck of an introduction.
First and foremost, you said you are looking to buy or get a v8 car built, have you considered looking at Flyin miatas cars? They aren't on the cheap end, but you can bet they will get your car well sorted to your exact liking, and they will stand behind it!
Welcome to the forums
First and foremost, you said you are looking to buy or get a v8 car built, have you considered looking at Flyin miatas cars? They aren't on the cheap end, but you can bet they will get your car well sorted to your exact liking, and they will stand behind it!
Welcome to the forums
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charchri4 (10-27-2015)
10-26-2015, 04:43 PM
#14
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
It's been now over 5 years since this thread began, and frankly, were it not for the automated e-mail notification of Plance1's and Stang_96's posts, I would have lost all cognizance of the discussion. In the intervening years presumably some of us have made impressive progress, gained experience, built this and that, perhaps sold it, moved on, built something else, and otherwise matured.
I've done nothing to my Miata, beyond somewhat crassly abusing it as daily-driver, in the Ohio snow, or "offroad" in my yard getting around other cars parked in the driveway. I've hit a deer, and countless rodents of various size and disposition. Having been too lazy to properly scrape off the ice from the windshield, I ran in morning blindness into my own mailbox; backed into a power-pole, slid latterly on an ice-patch into a metal staircase in an alleyway at work. The door-locks no longer work. Rust has germinated beyond its usual confines in the rocker-panels. I spilled coffee on the stereo, jamming it. The driver's seat is more a collection of protruding coils than a seat. The fuel-pump sputters. And the odometer is hurtling towards quarter-million.
The upshot of this all is that a daily-driver is hard to gingerly prize. Living with a 1991 Miata as a daily driver, I've enjoyed involuntary drifting up highway ramps in relentless rain; botched J-turns; 600-mile roadtrips with visiting every highway rest-area to do stretches and jumping-jacks; roadside re-tensioning of the accessory belt (I had no passenger whose panty-hose to use for this purpose); AAA flat-bed rides; and a resigned acceptance of new smells and new noises while sitting in traffic or in a midnight run across the Appalachians.
A V8 will have to be based on a new (to me) Miata, that's not lived life as daily driver. As to the question of buy-or-build, for me it's definitely buy; but even for a turnkey solution, care and persistence are required. Over these 5+ intervening years, the market has tightened, not just for V8s but even for unmodified creampuffs. Men of my generation are holding on to their Miatas (those of the older generation probably aren’t advertising on Craigslist, because they haven't figured out computers).
So I reiterate the suggestion for a gathering sometime soon, perhaps before winter overtakes us in the Midwest and Northeast. We all could use some good examples to motivate us.
I've done nothing to my Miata, beyond somewhat crassly abusing it as daily-driver, in the Ohio snow, or "offroad" in my yard getting around other cars parked in the driveway. I've hit a deer, and countless rodents of various size and disposition. Having been too lazy to properly scrape off the ice from the windshield, I ran in morning blindness into my own mailbox; backed into a power-pole, slid latterly on an ice-patch into a metal staircase in an alleyway at work. The door-locks no longer work. Rust has germinated beyond its usual confines in the rocker-panels. I spilled coffee on the stereo, jamming it. The driver's seat is more a collection of protruding coils than a seat. The fuel-pump sputters. And the odometer is hurtling towards quarter-million.
The upshot of this all is that a daily-driver is hard to gingerly prize. Living with a 1991 Miata as a daily driver, I've enjoyed involuntary drifting up highway ramps in relentless rain; botched J-turns; 600-mile roadtrips with visiting every highway rest-area to do stretches and jumping-jacks; roadside re-tensioning of the accessory belt (I had no passenger whose panty-hose to use for this purpose); AAA flat-bed rides; and a resigned acceptance of new smells and new noises while sitting in traffic or in a midnight run across the Appalachians.
A V8 will have to be based on a new (to me) Miata, that's not lived life as daily driver. As to the question of buy-or-build, for me it's definitely buy; but even for a turnkey solution, care and persistence are required. Over these 5+ intervening years, the market has tightened, not just for V8s but even for unmodified creampuffs. Men of my generation are holding on to their Miatas (those of the older generation probably aren’t advertising on Craigslist, because they haven't figured out computers).
So I reiterate the suggestion for a gathering sometime soon, perhaps before winter overtakes us in the Midwest and Northeast. We all could use some good examples to motivate us.
The following users liked this post:
charchri4 (10-27-2015)
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charchri4 (10-27-2015)
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