Project Vagrant
 

Ok, it's been years. I've been wanting to do this since the early 90's, been collecting parts for the last 5 years, retired last year... I'm out of excuses.

This one is another LSX into a NB but there will be a few differences to make it a bit unique. I'll try to get plenty of pics and leave as many part numbers as I can.

The motor is a VVT L92 w/o DOD from an '08 hummer thats just broken in with only 5000 miles.

Getting started today, put the motor on the engine stand was surprised that the bolts I had from the last build in my garage (an LQ4) were the wrong size... and immediately had to make a 40 minute round trip to nearest hardware store with a decent metric selection for four M10x1.5 bolts... at $2.10 each... thus it begins.

So far, I've swapped the intake for one from an '08 corvette. I've also got the vettes electronic throttle body and gas peddle. Next up is the cam swap. A comp cams 54-454-11... 227/243@.050, .613/.623

That should make for a rowdy Miata. I'll be watching the build.

So wheres the car?

Installed the cam today. https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...y-shot-951.jpg

The new cam is a 3 bolt non VVT cam vs the single bolt VVT unit... so there are a few parts needed to make it happen. I ordered a VVT Delete kit for this purpose. Got it from Texas Speed. It includes the new GM 4x timing sprocket, an ARP LS1 Camshaft bolt kit and a GM LS2 Timing Cover. It also included a new GM cam sensor... In retrospect, I don't think I needed the new cam sensor since the old one is basically new and has the same part number on it.

New Cam sprocket:
https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...m-gear-952.jpg
Old Cam Sprocket
https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...otor-2-948.jpg

Timing Covers
https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...covers-950.jpg
So next up is to to pick up a new front crank seal, and set up the valve train. The L92 pistons are notched from the factory and I'm hopeful that there wont be any piston to valve interference. I don't want to pull the heads if I don't have to. :smilie_daumenneg:

Where are you in Florida?

LOL a hummer engine? Now that is epic! I like your style already and am totally looking forward to following you.

So could I ask what's the plan and goals for the car? LOL were you foolish enough to have a budget and start date in mind? ;)

Thanks for doing a build thread!!

LOL perhaps some clarification. The hummer motor is an L92. It shares the same aluminum block, displacement and heads (and i believe rotating assy) as the LS3. If memory serves, this is the same motor used in the escalade and denalli.

The factory heads on these things are amazing which is the main reason they make so much power. The LS3 inherited its heads (and arguably its block) from the L92. The primary differences between it and the ls3 are external... oil pan, intake, accessories. Of course there is the VVT thing and / or DOD (depending on which L92 you get) but if your doing a cam change, the vvt is easier to remove. From what i've read, getting rid of DOD is a bit more work. There is also a very slightly lower compression, and don't quote me on this but i think the l92 is 10.5 vs 10.7 ls3... Probably due to the notches in the pistons (for the vvt). This is a pro for me as some guys who run larger cams often have to notch their pistons. Other than that, the LS3 gets more exotic valve materiels.

I saw the motor for sale locally while doing I research on car-part.com... the asking price was very low for what the motor was so I called a friend with a truck bought the motor that day... this was before I even owned a miata. I think LKQ and the community figured out what these motors were as they are much more expensive now.

As far as plans for the car go... I'd say well rounded. It needs to do everything... it wont be the best at anything but it will need to drive and not embarrass me at whatever kind of event I do with it whether car show, cruise, or various types of track venues. It would be a plus if women don't hate riding in it.

I don't have a date for when I'm going to be driving it yet but my intent is to stay on it and get it done. I'm not going to use exclusively kit parts and I"ll try to pay attention to detail... so a few things may take me a little while. I'd love to say 2-3 months but I don't know if that's realistic given some of the fabrication I'll be doing.

2-3 months, wow!!!:eek4: Good luck to you bud, that may put you on the fastest build time log book aside from flyinmiata or V8R. Still haven't seen, what car is it going in?

Yeah, I'm retired so... will see how motivated I stay.

Car is a stock silver 04... its in decent shape but not perfect. I'll get a pic later for ya.

Sweet another NB at the Mitty next spring! OK Travis the pressure is on... ;)

I'm getting there, my pool table has been converted to a work bench.....an action I swore I'd never do....My car will be started before thanksgiving, I feel very confident in it.

Checked the cam with the degree wheel today and checked PTV clearance... No issues with the cam itself and plenty of clearance on the exhaust side but only about .035" clearance on the intake valve at 10deg after TDC. Comp Cams recommends at least .100". So the heads need to come off so I can fly cut the pistons... bummer.

https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...180838-954.jpg

https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...131508-953.jpg

Welcome!

Looks like your off to a great start!

Where in Florida are you?

I'm a little disappointed that I need to pull the heads on this thing from a time perspective, but no biggie. I ordered the piston notching tool today from Lindy Tools and will probably have it mid week. I guess since I'm delayed a couple days and will have the heads off/disassembled, I might as well take a look at the ports and see if there is any blending needed... This is how things start to snowball.
Anyway, I talked to Dave, the owner of lindy tools and shot the shit for a while. The great people in our community never cease to amaze me.
lindytoolsco

I checked the installed height at 1.810 by measuring down with my caliper from the top of the retainer to the seat and then subtracting the thickness of the retainer. I verified with comp cams tech support that I was within the range for the springs (#26926-16) which call for a 1.835 installed height according to the box. Comp says I'm good to go on the springs.

Next up I checked pushrod length... this is new to me because I've never really set up a valve train on an LS motor... I made the mistake of ordering all the parts I thought I needed at once... However, unlike earlier motors, the LSX's don't have any adjustment built into the valve-train. Instead of adjustable rockers, LS motors use a pushrod of the exact right size. You need to use an adjustable pushrod to find zero lash as you set up the valve train and then order your pushrods. To complicate things, pushrod lengths are not the overall length of the pushrod... they are measured from a certain diameter of the ball on each end. Here is how you take the measurement

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP...12_292-311.pdf

I used comp cams part #7702 6.8" to 7.8" pushrod length checker. I turned the gauge 9 1/4 turns for zero lash at .050 per turn which yields .4625" of length more than part #7702's base length of 6.8" which gives a zero lash length of 7.263". This is a hyd roller cam and I need to have some lifter preload so a 7.3" pushrod will give me about .038 preload. This is just below the normally suggested range of .060-.080. I've found from past experience with higher RPM hyd lifter motors, less is more when it comes to preload. I'll recheck these numbers again when the heads go back on with the new head gaskets to make sure I order the correct pushrods.

Looking forward to seeing your build progress.

I like your aggressive build schedule. Mine took just over a year and a half.

Good to see another NB build!

Schedule might be a bit of an over statement... But if I plug away at it every day... will see.

A couple folks asked for a pic of the victim that will be de-souled.

Good luck sir, you're off to an excellent start!

-Tom

looks like your garage is pretty decent sized
i say do a build journal like Turbo Tom too

Funny that you mention Tom. His videos gave me the kick in the pants to get back on this project. Great workmanship and a clean build. Tom, if your reading, thanks for the motivation!

As for my garage, Yes, I have a large barn/garage building out back that I use for storage but there is no power out there (except a 110v extension chord) and I don't have a lift yet. I'm thinking the majority of my build will happen in my attached 2-car garage and in the driveway... the air tools will be handy and there is of course welding to be done... both of which require 220v.

Here is a pic of the L92 Pistons. Note that the intake and exhaust valves are at the same angle so the notch on the left does nothing for Piston to Valve Clearance. Incidentally, the reliefs are around .140 deep and I'll only be cutting around .070 with my new reliefs.
https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...164400-956.jpg

So while I'm waiting on the cutter, I've torn down and set up one of the heads with the new springs and just tore down and cleaned the other head. I'll use the unassembled head to cut the reliefs on both sides of the motor. Ideally I'd have another head for this purpose but I don't so I'm using one of the heads that will go back on the motor. The cutter is profiled on the back side so as to not damage the valve seat. There are other more expensive cutters on the market that require using a head without the valve seats installed.

I took a close look at the bowls, ports and valve seats in the heads... let me say that as a guy who read a book and ported a set of small block chevy heads back in the day (and stayed in a holiday in last night apparently) that these heads are excellent out of the box. There are a few spots in them that I could smooth slightly where there are casting imperfections but it would yield only minute gains. I could get more aggressive but without better equipment and a flow bench, I'd just as likely go backwards and doubt I'd see significant enough hp gains on this size motor to make it worth the time. I'm going to run them as-is.

Don't believe what you see on TV. Working on motors is messy, even almost new motors. Take a look at all of the debris underneath the motor that came off after prepping the block and piston surfaces and chasing the head bolt holes. You don't want this stuff inside your crank case and getting circulated through your bearings... or stuck in your rings. My suggestion is to fill piston holes with rags, work deliberately, use the vacuum often and rotate the engine slightly past 90 degrees on the engine stand so gravity can help you. I was surprised how much carbon and soot there was on the piston tops and combustion chambers for a motor with only 5000 miles. I think I'll look at deleting the PCV.
https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...162949-955.jpg

https://www.v8miata.net/members/dan_...165053-957.jpg

The on-head valve spring tool thats pictured in the preceding post works perfectly for the stock single springs but unfortunately does not work for my double spring upgrade. I have a craftsman c-clamp style spring compressor that I attempted to use and let me say, it is utterly useless at compressing these springs. The craftsman valve spring tool is simply not heavy duty enough to handle these springs. There are aftermarket LSX specific valve spring compressors that cost around $100. You can also build a DIY spring compressor with basic hand tools and a piece of metric all thread... but instead I made a trip to Advance Auto Parts and rented their spring compressor. I wasn't hopeful because it looks almost identical to my craftsman paper weight but it did the job... barely.

One note that I wanted to make today regarding cam choices and money. Going with a larger cam like this... and this cam is not *that* large... comes at a significant additional cost due to the need of a more expensive springs, as well as new retainers, locks, valve stem seals, pushrods, head gaskets, head bolts, as well as various measuring tools (if you don't have them already, such as a pushrod length checker, calipers, degree kit, and perhaps a new more expensive valve spring tool. I haven't added the extra stuff up, but compared to a slightly more conservative cam that could have used the GM blue beehive spring, with the stock retainers/etc, I've probably spent an additional $500 to run this cam and this is not including the rocker arm trunion upgrade that I also chose to run. Additionally, I'll have easily spent an additional 2 days of time. That's a fair amount of time and money for a relatively marginal increase in power and reliability. As you will see later, this is one of the few areas in the build where I splurge on extras like this.

Thank you Dan, you're very welcome and I appreciate the kind words!

-Tom

What did you do with those 1 3/4" headers that didn't work out for you?

Hey Dan,

I have them up for sale at the link below. Also, fyi- they are 1 5/8". https://www.v8miata.net/parts-sale-5...-headers-2542/

Oh, bummer didn't realize they were 1 5/8"

Had to take a break from the project... but started it back up. I've got one full day a week that I can dedicate to it now and have wrenched on it the last 3 weekends. Since last time, I notched the pistons to create some piston to valve clearance, re-assembled the motor, stripped the miata, cut the gussets out of the engine bay, slit the firewall and I just test fit the motor on the new Monster Miata sub frame. He just started selling these, apparently I have the 5th one.

Martins subframe allows the use of off the shelf oil pans as it was designed around the one from Mast Motorsports. It also has 7 inches of space between the pan and the passenger side frame rail for header clearance... he pulls this off by moving the control arm mounts into the subframe... seems like a great idea. It accepts stock 5th gen camaro/G8 exhaust manifolds. Its too soon to know if there are any existing/stock headers that fit it.

I installed the engine for a test fit yesterday and the initial feel is good. It fits, bolts up, no drama. It does place the motor about 1 3/8" off the firewall which is a tad far out for me due to my trans and accessory choices. I'm probably going to move the motor back an inch which is not a significant modification due to the design.

It will be interesting to see where an f-body T56 winds up and will there be some decent large tube headers that fit?

[QUOTE=Flavaquero;21402]It will be interesting to see where an f-body T56 winds up and will there be some decent large tube headers that fit?[/QUOTW]

Safe to say with mine, it would end up in the shifter hole, probably about an inch forward of center. I'm sure martin can build it any way you want... if you tell him to put the motor against the firewall, I'd bet he can do that easily. The design is excellent. It allows him plenty of latitude to do what the customer wants.

Cost and how bad to ship to Florida?

You will have to get with Martin on the cost.

Hold on now, I've never even heard of this subframe kit, and a google search tells me nothing, what is this witchery you speak of? How much was your subframe?

Did some work on the power steering. After i found out the mobile hydraulics guy that used to live near me moved, i decided to adapte the miata lower end of the pressure line to the f-body upper hose section using a swagelok compression fitting/adapter... 10mm to 3/8". The miata return hose tube on the rack just needed a slight tweak to work. I bought a flow restrictor from Turn One... Its exactly like the original flow restrictor except with a smaller .093" hole. I wish i had known... I'd have taken a shot at welding mine closed and re-drilling it. There was also a little grinding on the rack required for clearance/ fitment.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...f422fe0b92.jpg
So i decided to try to run v8r headers with the monster subframe but had a little interferance in a couple of spots. I made up these plates to move the motor back an inch to fix the clearance. 3/4\" would have been better. I had to clearance to top of the tunnel with the additional setback. On the plus side, since i'm running f-body accessories, the extra inch up front means i wont have to comprimise on my fans/radiator placement.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...097758191d.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...44268c9af3.jpg
LS7 clutch setup.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...ed01b05c57.jpg
I had a \"viper spec" LT1 t56 and decided to run it instead of the t5. I needed to convert the t56 to an ls1 style which involved replacing the input shaft and transmissions front cover/bearing retainer... Tremmic calls it a "mid plate" There is no center register in the t56 bellhousing so to check runout, you have to bolt the mid plate to the bell. And check it on the bearing race.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7ab52a30ea.jpg
Replacing the mid plate and input shaft means the transmission needs to be almost fully torn down to re-shim it properly. This was my first trans rebuild... Althought with only 5k miles on it, nothing needed to be replaced.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...6a653c8dbf.jpg
I think this pic was the shifter location before i moved it back an inch with the fbody t56.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7150a3f6ff.jpg
I built a trans mount... Its very simple but was a bit of a pain to get the angles just right. I tied it into reinforced area where the seats mount. Its very solid. I may also hang the exhaust here.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...48448c71c0.jpg
Had my driveshaft shortened / balanced by advanced driveline in orlando. You can also see the front diff mount I made in this picture. Its a 7.5 ford with martins axles. I'm not 100% happy with the front mount... On my first attempt, i built it too high and the rear u joint was hitting the gas tank. I spaced it down to clear and its fine for now...but i want to rebuild it later.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...3349a9de00.jpg
Radiator all mounted up. I ordered a dual pass the right dimensions and fabbed my own mounts. The lower mount is an upper mount from a 2002 dodge 1500
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...d6d059fb57.jpg
I moved it forward an inch. There is still room for a condensor in front. The original upper mounts were cut down and welded to the core support.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...46373a704e.jpg
The upper mounts before welding.

You still have not disclosed what city you are in? I'm in Dade City and am just finishing up my build. The tune thing is a big deal as you will see.

I'm on the other side of Orlando from you, Melbourne area. The tuning thing is definitely not easy, especially because you're dealing with debugging a new build at the same time. I've tuned a few of my own cars with good success, carbs, DFI, Megasquirt, even burned a few eproms back in the day on for a 747 ecm in an OBD1 car. I went to the HP tuners GM class at the tuning school in Tampa last year to learn the Gen III and Gen IV GM stuff and have since done a custom OS/speed density tune on a buddy's LS swap. And your right, that has been a challenging project to say the least. Especially since its a fresh build with lots of stuff to debug. I'm not going to run a GM ECU in mine.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...aa848439a1.jpg
Trying to get caught up on the build progress up to now.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...f206c3741a.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...080abad4a1.jpg
This was the first version of my diff mount before I realized I needed to lower it a bit to clear the rear yolk. I've already built a new rear mount, but for the front one I just added spacers. The rear mount is on polyurethane bushings.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...342b8779ba.jpg
Here is my motor with notched pistons. Frightening... Thats the spring compressor that I bought on top, that little screw sitting loose is the one it came with, I think it was 5/16. That tiny thing with its 60 degree thread was supposed to compress two springs. Laughable. It failed after 1 or two uses. I sourced a piece of acme thread and retreaded the end of it to go into their tool. Now it works reliably.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...1e443c3fbc.jpg
Thats the valve relief cutting tool on the right. Using it with a drill was causing too much chatter so I built the handle on the left so I could do it by hand.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...fc497100bb.jpg
Typical Corner mods. In retrospect, I'll try to leave whatever material that I can in the corners next time. It would be useful to have a template from a car with the motor already installed to see what actually "needs" to be cut.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...60bf273747.jpg
I also ended up clearancing the top of the tunnel because I moved the motor back 1". I didn't need to cut it to fit it in Martins intended position. I know some people cut and notch here but I just worked it slowly with a hammer. It came out pretty good. I'll try to get more pictures of the tunnel mods the next time the motor is out, but they are the typical mods everyone does.

Random thoughts... I've already installed the fuel pump and fittings but I'm not sure if I left fuel in the tank... if I did, I'm going to regret it as I'm sure the gas is bad by now.

I didn't want to run any of the the kit radiators/cooling systems because in my opinion from 3 years ago, they were all a little overpriced and had a critical design flaw in that the fill ports looked to be lower than the top of the head. So my radiator does not have a fill port. It will have 2 steam/bleeder vents that will run to a firewall mounted remote fill port/tank which ties into one of the heater core lines. I'll also run the motors steam vent there. Being the highest point in the system, this is where the overflow tank will connect. I think I'm going to wait until I do wiring to fabricate that tank though... I'm thinking I may design an overflow, remote reservoir and oil catch can to mount on the passenger side firewall and I'll still need to fabricate and mount a washer reservoir. I want the engine bay to be clean, so I need to think on where to put/hide all this stuff


So at this point my near term to-do list is something like:

Design, waterjet, weld, fan shroud and shroud mounts
Design, make, weld 1/8" npt vent bungs for top of radiator
Finish welding trans mount
Weld tunnel backing plates for trans mount
Install starter and dip stick
Fabricate exhaust
Design and have sway bar bent

not to worry i wound up draining the tank from the drain bolt on the bottom. It is funny because I have been debating about the tuning school for myself. It is a bunch of money but I am only 35 minutes from them. Any others with experience from schools like this?

Oh, wow, didn't know there was a drain plug, thats great news! If your starting out, I'd suggest Greg Banishes books first, then maybe the HP Academy Videos. The tuning school is cool because its in person with q&a and live dyno tuning sessions.... The beginner/intermediate class is good for tuning a bolt on car but lacks the depth you would need for an engine swap. I haven't done their advance course yet. ERM performance has a course that has lots of depth. Unfortunately ED passed away recently but I think his son is still selling the course material. There is also tons of great material scattered on the forums.

Finished the design for the shroud, I'll get it cut early next week.https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...5b901d9bf8.jpg

Looks like you do some first class work sir, very nice looking.

One thing I wanted to note. I have dealt with many many NB cars, I do not think they have a fuel drain. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing what David stated was based on is NA tank. If you find it, please teach me something new by showing us where it is!

Yep I'm an NA.

I didnt look yet... bummer...

Pulled the trans crossmember and finished welding it, also welded up the backing plates for it.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...1a3f18dda4.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...2c77363d4a.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7612c52fbb.jpg
Got my shroud back today from water jet. Always exciting to see parts I design come to life.