What emissions sensors?
 

I plan on using the EGR, charcoal canister, and cats but not the smog pump or air tubes. Testing is not an issue but random roadside tests may be a future concern and I may have to add a smog pump back on at some point.
I bought the engine with no wiring or accessories or sensors/senders. Engine is set up as a '93 fox body but with SN95 front drive. I have added all "on engine" sensors and EGR. Will use Miata canister.
From what I can gather on some of the Mustang forums, I'll need:
-barometric sensor
- canister purge valve
- EGR regulator

wondering if I don't have the TAD and TAB if it will cause a MIL.

Also, If I don't have AC or Cruise, can I get away without the vacuum tee? Seems there would be enough sources of vacuum from the intake manifold for the brakes and FPR and the emission gear that I should be OK without it.

Someone check my work please.
Thanks,
Brad

Don't forget the VSS sensor. Before I had a custom tune done on mine, I had the TAB & TAD sensors wired up & hidden under the dash. I also installed a mini toggle switch (hidden in the glovebox) that can turn off the check engine light if needed.

Yes, VSS is on my shopping list as well. Do you know if a don't have TAB and TAD sensors will it cause a CEL? Those sensors are a little pricey, but I'll get them if it makes the computer happy.

They will only throw a code during a KOEO test. They will not throw a check engine light up.

Let me make your harness and I'll set everything up for you.

-Jason

Thanks Jason,
I already ended up finding a harness. Will be in touch about the TFI relocation though...probably not for another couple months though.
Brad

By "make your harness" I meant modify your donor harness for you so that it's configured in such a way that it easily drops in and does not throw any codes.

-Jason

I'd also be happy to sell you a drive shaft. I've had one "in stock" for almost 4 months.

-Jason

Well, I just have to finish up some wiring and plumbing and I'll be ready for first crank.
Right now I'm sorting through the vacuum system and I have a couple related questions.

Do I need to use a vacuum tree if I already have suitable sources for vacuum? ie does the vacuum tree have a check valve or anything that is needed for the vacuum destinations?

The reason I ask is because it looks like I may have enough sources coming directly off the upper IM. This is what I've figure so far:
IM to FPR
IM to Canister purge solenoid
IM to EGR solenoid > EGR solenoid to EGR valve
IM to PCV
IM to Brake booster (using stock Miata checkvalve)
I don't have A/C or smog pump (TAB TAD)

Also, on the EGR solenoid, does it matter which line goes to which fitting? There are 2 on it. One is from source and one goes to EGR valve.

Anything else I'm forgetting?
Thanks guys.
Brad

You should be fine with what you have. No need for the Mustang vacuum tree. I don't think it matters either which vac tube is where on the EGR solenoid.

Also, as Jason said, the TAB/TAB not being there will not throw a check engine light but it will show up when doing the key on engine off test. It may also show up in memory codes (not sure on that one). If you want TAB/TAD KOEO to go away, a resistor (75 ohm 3 watt I think - equal to the resistance of the TAB/TAD solenoid) on the driver wires will get rid of those too.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I'm getting pumped. Hopefully it'll run. lol

The smog pump injects air into the exhaust system to help the cats work efficiently. The cats are a combustion chamber, and need oxygen. Without the extra air, the cats don't get hot enough, and tend to clog up.

Yes, hi-flow cats are on the list when it's time.

Brad - how'd you make out with your emissions equipment?

I'm pulling my engine back out on mine due to firewall and oilpan modifications i've decided are necessary for clearance... I've decided to re-add the cylinder head cross over air tube at the same time... I want to setup the full smog emissions system...

the biggest problem i'm finding is sourcing all the individual smog pieces... looks like it will nickel and dime me to death! a quick price list looks like it will cost over 1000$ just for all the components!

each individual piece on ebay charges 40$ to ship to Canada!

I ended up keeping EGR, evap canister, and will be running cats. I didn't install a smog pump. We don't have testing in my county but random roadside tests in the city could be a problem. If I get nabbed, I'll install the pump.
I get exhaust next week, as well as O2 sensors.
What oil pan issues do you have?

I'm not overly worried about passing e-test... it's the random roadside tests that scare me... They want the "original emissions euipment" installed... could be runing cleaner than it did when it was a new car you're still getting a fine if the old antiquated air pump isn't there... kind of silly... but ya... Ontario...

my oil pan was rubbing on the one corner... the spot where the k member goes through it, at the back the k member was rubbing on the corner of the oil pan... and the smog tube on the driver side cylinder head kept touching the firewall.. so, couldn't backup the engine, couldn't move it forwards... tried tilting it slightly side to side, forward back..... just couldn't find any way to make it work correctly...

I've heard several people say the inspectors don't even care if the stuff works, just that it's there....hint hint.
Have you seen any roadside tests? I haven't around here, but I can't imagine they'd pull over a little Miata unless it's running open headers or other jack assery.
Mine goes out tomorrow for exhaust...hope it not "too" loud.
Got some miles on yours yet this year or does the oil pan issue have you grounded?

I've never seen any, but I've only heard of the horror stories... Thing is i don't even mind installing all this stuff, i just don't want to spend 1000$ for it all... I put Thrush Weldeds on mine, they're very close to flowmaster 40s, so it's loud, and there's absolutely no mistaking it is a v8... so I can't help but wonder if the smog police will have a hard on for me or not! specially with the wide tires, hood scoop, and 5.0 high performance badge on the side.. lol

I've had lots to sort out, so i haven't put any real mileage, just little 5 minute joy rides to show ppl the car once in a while... engine still not running correctly, floor gets too hot with the exhaust, haven't taken it for alignment yet, clutch isn't working correctly, all the wiring is just temporarily held with tie wraps... etc.. so, I've been scared to go too far with it...

and now over the weekend, i took all the exhaust off, transmission/ driveshaft / bell housing out.. pulled engine out, and dropped the K member lol... so she's completely ripped apart at the moment...

this will give me a chance to shield my fuel lines correctly, route the wiring correctly into the tunnel... a lot of this stuff i didn't realize needed to be done before i installed the engine originally..

Wow Gabriel that's a lot of rework just to move a fuel line!

Not to move a fuel line.. To modify the firewall where the engine was rubbing, and modify the oil pan where it was rubbing on the k member, and replace the cylinder head airtube with a new one that hasn't been cut off and welded shut by the previous owner of the engine, so that i can add a smog pump should i decide to...

unfortunately these things could not be done with the engine in place... I'm not sure how everyone else has managed, but i was unable to remove the engine with the bell housing still in place, even after lowering the k-member, there's just not enough room in that engine bay..

shielding the fuel lines, fastening/routing the battery cable, rerouting and fastening the speedo cable are all just bonus of getting back in there...

Well it'll go back together alot quicker the second time. I know there were several operations during this swap where I had to do the same job 2 and 3 times to get things where I wanted them. And I guess I won't know how successful I was until I get some miles on it. At least the major part of the build is done, but the devil is in the details, isn't it?

oh ya, I had the entire car ripped appart in 6 hours, i figure it might take me 7 or 8 to put it back together... so much much faster than the first time lol...

I'm sure yours will be great - there's always some sorting, but i got caught up on just "trying to get it done" last year, and that's not what this project was about... so I'm fixing whatever I didn't do right...

how did you manage your tunnel boot for the shifter by the way? I probably spent 5 hours fabricating cutting and modifying till I was fully content with it..

Click my link and scroll to the bottom. I made a sheetmetal plate and used Martins boot with it. What did you do?

Cool! I had never seen your build blog - your build looks nice, the work looks very neat.

I ended up using a rubber roof vent flashing peice like we discussed in a previous post.. I'm using a hurst shifter and the base is exactly 3 inch, so i was able to take the whole shifter appart where the hole in the roof vent flashing slips over it, put the shifter back together.. then i made a steel track that curns the contour of the rubber and pinches it down to the body... it worked quite well... I'd take a picture but the trany's out right now lol...

Neat. Take pics when you put it back together. I'd like to see that. Another option in case mine doesn't work out.

And I meant to ask- I presume you're running cats? That's one area I've heard they really check on those random roadsides.

About smog pumps - their function was to inject clean air into a 1980's vintage converter to make it work better. In the last 30 years the technology that is used to make them up has improved dramatically to the point where the injection of air is no longer needed.

PA also has a "if it was there originally" clause in it's OBD1 testing, however the "originally" refers to the chassis, not the driveline. In that spirit, a 1990-1993 Miata ONLY had a cat, no EGR and no smog pumps. In a county where you have to do a 35mph sniffer test (Philly and Pittsburg metro areas) you can easily get a rebuilt 5.0 to smog cleaner than a 1.6 liter Miata with only cats and an EGR valve. In counties where the car is only subjected to a visual test as long as the cats are there (since a Miata originally had one) you pass.

-Jason

Well.. In Ontario the stipulation is that the engine has to have it's original emissions equipment, PLUS meet the vehicle's original emissions requirement... double whammy... but i guess it's subject to interpretation... here's what MTO says, what do you think this means exactly?

For Drive Clean testing, the vehicle must meet or exceed what were the emissions standards of the original motor when all original emission control equipment was functioning.

All emissions control equipment must be attached and functioning (equipment refers to what came with the replacement motor or be equivalent to what would have come with that motor)

Wellll guess what... I've had enough of dancing around this subject for the last year... I want to find out concrete info.

I contacted Ontario Drive Clean, they forwarded me to the Ontario Vehicle Emissions Enforcement Unit. I was advised that the person i need to speak to has left for the day but I could leave him a voicemail, so I did. Gave a brief description and basically asked do i need to install the smog pump if the original car never came with it and the vehicle passes drive clean test adhering to the original miata standards...

I'll keep everyone posted - for the sake of the odd few Ontarians on this forum

I finally got a hold of someone at the the Vehicle Emissions Enforcement Unit, and here is how it works in Ontario according to the my conversation with them.


In Ontario there are two things to comply with

1. Drive Clean testing - Only enforced in parts of Ontario, as you said Brad this is not something you need to concern yourself about. But if an engine is replaced in a car after 1999 the car must past drive clean with the original car's standards, and not the engines! If you can have supporting documentation that it was done prior to 1999, you may apply with drive clean to have it registered as a hot rod which increases all the limits for the emissions test, and you're almost guarantied to pass at that point.

2. Ministry of Environment's Vehicle Emissions Enforcement Unit. This is a completely separate entity and has nothing to do with Drive Clean. They are there to ensure the emissions equipment has not been tampered with or removed and is working correctly. If you replaced the engine after 1999 or have no documentation to prove otherwise, the vehicle has to comply with BOTH the requirements of the original vehicle, PLUS the requirements of the new motor. He in fact, confirmed to me, that legally i need to have the smog pump system, egr system, evap system, cats, 02s all installed and in working order. There is however, the 1999 loop hole, if you can carry sufficient evidence that the motor was swapped prior to 1999 with you, none of these regulations matter. But whether or not you registered it as a hotrod with Drive Clean is irrelevant to a smog patrol officer, you need proof with you to show that the engine was replaced prior to 1999.

Legislation changed around 1999 so individuals with hot rods built prior to this were "grandfathered" in.

I did ask however, if you do not know what vehicle this engine came out of? what then? I did not get a yes or no answer for that one. it seems to become a very gray area... Perhaps if the smog patrol officer is a nice guy, he may let you off since there's no clear infraction... I think all Ford 5Ls of the era came with Air pumps... but what if you said it was a crate engine???

So, conclusion: In Ontario, you put a 5.0 from a 89-93 mustang in a Miata, legally, you are required to install egr, air pump, evap, cats, 02... furthermore if you're in a test zone, you must also pass the drive clean test every two years.


unless of course you comply with the 1999 clause....


Hope this helps the odd few Ontarians on this forum :)