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-   -   Engine build plan (https://www.v8miata.net/ford-v8-discussion-29/engine-build-plan-3423/)

MX-Brad 08-30-2020 09:06 PM

Just talked to my buddy who works at the machine shop. They’re pretty busy, but I can drop off the engine tomorrow (my day off) and they’ll do whatever needs done.
Since I’ll be down for a couple weeks, I may look into that master upgrade. Tildon 7/8 Unversal clutch master...is that right?

engineer 08-31-2020 02:17 AM

Hi Brad,

yeah its this one...


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-75-875u/overview

Ford5.0 08-31-2020 07:45 AM

Brad - I also switched to the Tilton and my results were the same as the engineer's. I had to slightly enlarge the hole in the firewall with a die grinder and address the difference between the metric thread on the clutch pedal clevis and the standard thread on the Tilton push rod. At the onset the heavier pedal feel was a little noticeable but now its a total non-issue, in fact I like it better than the pedal "numbness" in my Mustang.

MX-Brad 08-31-2020 12:39 PM

Yes, after reading up a bit more, it is a no brainer. It’s in my Summit cart.
Just waiting to hear back from the shop. Got the engine to them this morning. They said they would tear things down this aft and get back to me. Since the crank has already been turned from the last failure, I may need a new one if this one is too mangled.

Sunshine Guy 08-31-2020 11:40 PM

It seems there is a consensus that Martin's 3/4" clutch master cylinder is right on the cusp of providing just enough travel for acceptable clutch operation (if adjusted just right), and it provides a nice, light pedal feel. Several have converted to a 7/8" clutch master that seems to provide a big plenty of travel at the expense of greater pedal effort.

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to try a 13/16" clutch master? Since the 3/4" master is right on the borderline of acceptable travel, it would seem the 13/16" unit would likely provide sufficient travel while splitting the difference in pedal effort. Perhaps the ideal compromise?

engineer 09-01-2020 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by Sunshine Guy (Post 27290)
It seems there is a consensus that Martin's 3/4" clutch master cylinder is right on the cusp of providing just enough travel for acceptable clutch operation (if adjusted just right), and it provides a nice, light pedal feel. Several have converted to a 7/8" clutch master that seems to provide a big plenty of travel at the expense of greater pedal effort.

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to try a 13/16" clutch master? Since the 3/4" master is right on the borderline of acceptable travel, it would seem the 13/16" unit would likely provide sufficient travel while splitting the difference in pedal effort. Perhaps the ideal compromise?

Hi,

Yes Sunshine guy makes a very good suggestion. There is indeed a 13/16 option which will have a lighter pedal feel than the 0.875 Tilton unit ...and still provide the necessary throw i would imagine. See below..for the link..maybe Brad can be the first person to try it out :)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-75-812u




MX-Brad 09-01-2020 08:13 PM

Good idea, but too late.....the 7/8 one is already enroute.
Will keep y’all posted. Thanks.

Sunshine Guy 09-02-2020 11:15 AM

It would be interesting to quantify the actual difference in pedal effort between the 3/4" and 7/8" masters. A weight scale could be used to push on the clutch pedal with the current master and then again with the larger master installed, recording the pounds of force required for each.

If anyone is interested in such an endeavor (wink wink, Brad), I'm thinking the "test equipment" could be something as simple as a short piece of 2x4 with another 2x4 center-nailed to create a "T" shape. Put the end of the first 2x4 on the clutch pedal and a weight scale on the top of the T, push on the scale and record the pounds of force required to swing the pedal. A smaller capacity digital scale would probably be most accurate, but a plain old bathroom scale should ballpark it.

What I "think" will happen is about a 36% increase in pedal effort, simply because a 7/8" master has a piston with 36% greater surface area than a 3/4", and consequently that much more volume displacement when moved in a cylinder. This also suggests...I think...36% greater travel at the slave with equivalent pedal movement. FWIW, if this "theory" is correct, a 13/16" master would provide an 18% increase in effort and travel, respectively.

Caveats:
1. This simple calculation probably discounts some other mechanical factors in the system that may change the outcome
2. These calculations were made by a guy who struggled with freshman algebra...so surely don't take these numbers as gospel without measured confirmation.

MX-Brad 09-14-2020 06:20 PM

Picked up my engine today. Not bad, 2 weeks from the day i dropped it off. Price was fair for the work done. 3rd time is the charm, right?
The new Tilton clutch master is here too. I”d be all set for a fun weekend of installation except for the fact that my wife has taken over the garage for her car until it goes into winter storage .....probably next month. I’ll keep the insurance on mine for now in case I luck out and we have a late start to winter. I’ll update once I get the garage back. )

MX-Brad 09-21-2020 06:30 PM

Was messing around on the workbench with the new clutch master and Martins adaptor. Bottom bolt goes in ok, but the top bolt won’t go in as the reservoir base is too close to the hole. It seems my 2 options are to either slot the top hole or to red locktite a stud in the adaptor and use a nut.
Any better suggestions?
Still not at the reassembly stage yet. Still making arrangements to store the wife’s car so I can have my garage back )

engineer 09-29-2020 07:29 PM

Just centre it in the adapter and slot both holes slightly....it will have a better pushrod angle that way when mounted

MX-Brad 10-15-2020 08:44 PM

Ok, time for an update.
I’d picked up the engine a few weeks back, but no time to dig in until this past weekend. Got it all in and ready to go. Immediately on start up it started making that same clanging noise from the last video. Again it seemed to be coming from the oil pan. Not sure why it would do that, but I figured I’d be pulling the damn engine out again. I happened to crawl around yesterday and noticed the back edge of the crank pulley was scraped down to bare metal and the edge was razor sharp. WTF? A closer look revealed that a waterpump mounting hole had a long stud in it that was making contact with the back edge of the crank pulley. Aha. I removed the belt and pulley and started the car and no noise, in fact it sounded great. Thinking I’m in the clear now, I cleaned up the pulley, replaced the stud with a proper sized bolt and proceeded to button things up. Tonights plan was to let it run for about 10 or 15 minutes to get the oil good and hot for an oil and filter change. Well, once she warmed up she started knocking again. Not as bad as before, but not good. I drained the oil and cut the filter open...loaded with copper.
It only ran a total of less than 2 minutes with that stud pushing on the crank, but I guess that was enough to toast yet another thrust bearing. Not sure why the shop assembly guy put a stud there, but bad on me for not noticing when I installed the pullies.
I’m done with this engine.

engineer 10-18-2020 07:35 PM

Hey Brad,

Brother, i am so sorry to hear that this pest of an engine has given you more grief. Put it up for sale and get a crate motor and be done with it. Make sure you get one with about 400hp with decent manners and you will be very happy.

I cant believe how much pain this engine has put you through...what a headache.

But hang in there champ, pull the engine and sell it...then get yourself a proper engine to truly enjoy :)


MX-Brad 10-20-2020 11:29 AM

Smoking gun......

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...de254812f.jpeg
Front
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...f70fc72a4.jpeg
Rear
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...39fd456a7.jpeg
Rear thrust surface

This is after 10 mins run time.
Turns out I may not be the stupid idiot I convinced myself I was. Nice machine work fellas.

engineer 10-20-2020 05:34 PM

Hi Brad,

The Thrust bearing surface is supposed to have a copper face on it, but from the pics there appears to be some burning on the thrust face and also its flat spotted the thrust bearing at the 5-7 o'clock point. This has come from the totally crap journal machining on the crank thrust faces...which looks woeful. The machine shop never touched the crank in that area...100%. It very much appears that the crank thrust surfaces are not true at all. (i.e. crank not properly machined and polished). So what that means is its picking up the thrust bearing at the high spots and cooking it.. This is the cause of your issue with toasting thrust bearings.

They need to pay for this...its unacceptable. And don't go back

MX-Brad 11-06-2020 12:06 PM

I couldn't convince myself that I would fare any better with a reman'd engine. Since the issue is obviously the crank, I decided I would get a new crank, and have the rotating assembly balanced, and assemble myself. I contacted a shop in a nearby city that does engines for an IHRA champ as well as normal commercial/industrial work. I asked about balancing etc and through a few emails back and forth and several questions, I emailed him pics of that crank. The engine guy said it might be a good idea to bring the block in for a check over too. He confirmed the crank is junk and suggested a few other things be done. I'm just going to go ahead and have them do the work and assemble the shortblock. He has my block and rotating assembly but his crankshaft guy is away hunting for the week. I should have a solid gameplan next week.
Meanwhile I sold my Flotek heads for basically what I paid for them, so I've been in contact with Ed Curtis about a cam/head package. Going with AFR165. May have to hold off on the cam and use my XE264 for another year, but I need heads once I get the shortblock back. Things should go much better this time.

engineer 11-09-2020 07:43 PM

Hi Brad,

That's a great plan and I am glad that things are moving forward. What you are doing will work perfectly. Glad you sold the heads as the AFR units are leaps and bounds better and that will hopefully correct the the rocker/pushrod/valve tip patterngeometry. Also do not short change the XE264 cam, its pretty decent for a street driven 302. It will make good power with the AFR heads.

Keep us posted !

MX-Brad 11-30-2020 09:50 PM

Update time.
Got the shortblock rebuilt at the new shop. New (used) oem crank 10/10, align hone, jet cleaned, rotating assembly balanced, new bearings, rings and oil pump. It’s now in my garage.
Today I ordered my Ed Curtis custom cam, AFR 165’s and Comp Magnum Pro rockers and billet timing set.
While I’m waiting for that stuff I’m going to double check the machine shops work by measuring clearances and checking torque specs etc.
I figure even if I move up to a Dart block in tne future, I’ll have a nice top end to bolt onto it.

engineer 12-02-2020 06:03 PM

Hi Brad,

Sounds perfect mate, cant wait to see the results of that. I would suggest you will hit 350hp at the flywheel with that combo. A dart block wont be necessary, the standard block is well within its design limits at those power levels.

Also please make sure that you order a BILLET cam and NOT an AUSTEMPERED cam. Billet is by far a safer option. Sometimes the heat treatment on Austempered cores is not good enough and the lobes can get damaged by the steel roller of the lifters. Whereas a billet steel core wont go soft. You don't ever want to pull the cam out because of rounded lobes...it sux trust me I know :)

Keep us posted :)

Regards,

MX-Brad 12-02-2020 08:24 PM

Yup, billet for sure. Seeing how many old ford cams are still in use, going billet was an easy choice. Can’t wait to get this engine together. Should be a good runner.

MX-Brad 01-02-2021 10:51 PM

Minor update.
Got my Ed cam. Still waiting on the AFR heads from him, but I’ve started reassembly.
Crank thrust measured .006, and cam thrust is .005 after some careful sanding of the thrust plate for proper endplay. New Rollmaster 3040 timing set installed. The thrust plate is from Ed too...it has extra oil holes drilled in it.
Degreed the cam and it ended up 1/2 to 1* out of spec....have a good day.
Next up is timing cover/water pump, and button up the bottom- oil pump and pan. Then I’m ready for heads.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...657fc3925.jpeg

engineer 01-03-2021 07:06 AM

Hi Brad,

That is awesome news. I am so glad you got the Ed Curtis cam and the AFR heads. It will be a great engine. Those clearance numbers are spot on perfect. Also 1/2 degree off is perfect for degreeing the cam. It is likely just a measurement error (i.e. dial indicator pointer) that is getting you that small difference. But 1/2 degree off is nothing and if I am within 1 degree I call it a good install. I have never had to adjust the cam timing to compensate for cam degreeing errors. If you have to adjust more than +- 2 degrees on the crank to get it perfect, then something is wrong. For the record, Ed checks every cam before he sends it. So if your crank keyway and timing chain are in excellent shape then lining it up dot to dot on install will result in a correctly "degreed" cam. An adjustment either way for +-2 degrees wont change anything too drastically to notice. You will need over +- 4 degrees to notice the engine change behaviour slightly.

The only thing left is to verify the valvetrain geometry (i.e. pushrod length and rocker ratio). I am keen to see how much better the wear pattern on the valve stem will look now that you have excellent heads on it.

Keep us posted champion....things are looking really good now :)

engineer 01-21-2021 06:41 PM

Hi Brad,

Any update on the engine ? Also I forgot the ask you what specs Ed recommended for your engine. i am guessing somewhere between 215-220 deg @ 50 and around 0.575 to 0.6 lift on a 109 intake centreline ? Keep us posted buddy!


MX-Brad 01-21-2021 08:27 PM

Thanks for asking, John.
Still waiting on heads. With Covid, things are slow and folks are more inclined to sit at home on assistance rather than working. Least that’s what Ed is telling me. Last I heard from Ed, heads are tentatively supposed to arrive to him Jan 25. However, I’ve heard rumours of other companies giving ship dates as late as Mar, and even June. Edlebrocks foundry casts heads for AFR and TrickFlow, and the company is in the middle of moving from California to Tennessee. Hopefully sooner than later.
Cam spec’s attached. You are pretty much spot on.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...fefaef7b3.jpeg

engineer 01-21-2021 08:58 PM

Hi Brad,

That cam looks perfect for a daily driver 302. And yes was almost perfectly in line with my expectations. :)

MX-Brad 02-07-2021 10:39 PM

Nothing much new to update. Still waiting on heads.
Looking for little projects to do while I wait. I recall in the hot summer sometimes I have a slow cranking on hot restarts. Figured I’d upgrade the battery cables to 1/0 gauge. Positive from battery to starter, and ground from battery to starter or bellhousing bolt. I already have several grounds from body to engine. Cables are enroute.

engineer 02-07-2021 11:27 PM

Hi Brad,
I had a very similar issue with my car as well. I upgraded the cables to larger gauge and I installed a new relay setup. Same issue...it would be very hard to turn over when hot. I was using a ford racing starter (

Ford Performance Parts M-11000-B51 - Ford Performance Parts Starters)

I bought the ford racing starter new...it was OK...but sometimes it would just make the car sound like the battery was almost flat when hot. It would chug, chug chug and then start....very very slow cranking speed.

So I got fed up with it one day and I purchased a proper starter..

Powermaster 9503 - Powermaster XS Torque Starter

Now with the Powermaster XS it spins the engine so quickly I had to drastically adjust my timing for letting go of the key sooner! :) It is a fantastic starter...worlds apart from the old ford racing unit. Also it never heat soaks...in Australia it hits 100 deg F on some days and every time my car started first shot.

I highly recommend that you change it over. You will thank me later :)

Also add a nice 40 A relay with new heavy gauge wiring for the starter solenoid upon install.

Do the above with your 1/0 gauge wiring and the car will never have a starting issue again :)

Keep us posted :)

cheers



MX-Brad 02-08-2021 12:15 AM

Cool. Will give that a try if cables themselves don’t fix the issue.

engineer 03-02-2021 08:25 PM

Hi Brad,

Any update on the engine front ? I am keen to see how you have been progressing :)

MX-Brad 03-02-2021 10:02 PM

Hi John, Thanks for asking.
I’m going freaking insane waiting for these damn heads. It’s the only thing holding me up right now. Ed emailed a week ago saying he finally received the castings from AFR. I guess he just needs to load them up and get them sent to me. Hopefully next week sometime. Spring is starting to tease us here.

MX-Brad 03-03-2021 03:36 PM

Actually got a notice from Fedex today. Heads have shipped and should be here Friday. Gotta say that communication between Ed and me has been piss poor. We were supposed to get a few more details squared away before he shipped, and updates in general have been scarce. Hopefully his parts make up for it.
I should be back on the road this month sometime. ,’ )

MX-Brad 03-06-2021 07:00 PM

Heads arrived last night. After work today I slapped an old head gasket on bolted on a head and rocker, dialed up my adjustable pushrod and solid lifter.
I ended up with this. My crappy digital caliper is going beserk, but I’d eyeball this to be about .035 to .040. Not too effin’ bad, and perfectly centered to boot. Man, it is beautiful to play with high quality precision parts. I struggled to get it somewhat centered and below .100 with my former cheap heads and rockers.
Added bonus, I checked and I can actually remove and install the lifters with heads on. AFR165, Magnum Pro rockers and custom cam combo from Ed.
I ended up with approximately 6.65“ pushrod length.

edited to add: my solid lifter wasn’t set up right and needed another washer. New PR measurement is 6.400” but will double check after I bolt the heads down for good.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...a1cdb3db6.jpeg

MX-Brad 03-10-2021 08:33 AM

Minor holdup. I decided I want to switch out my lifters. The original shop that did the crappy machine work installed Sealed Power HT2205 lifters, which I mistakenly thought were a rebranded decent quality Elgin lifter. I ordered a single lifter of the same model to make into a solid lifter. Just noticed the box says made in China. Some of my best friends were made in China, but I’m not taking any chances on these parts so I ordered some fresh FMS lifters. Hopefully arrive today so I can remeasure for pushrods and get this finished up.

engineer 03-14-2021 10:55 PM

Hi Brad,

Great stuff!! The valve tip wear line is perfect. I knew it would be right with the AFR setup! Looking sweet now!

Yes 100%, chinese parts are definitely junk on a good day. Glad you ditched the lifters.

Also FMS have 2 Hydraulic roller lifter models..the FMS M-6500-R302H is the one you want as it will stay pumped at 6500-7000 rpm. The OEM version was only good to 6000 rpms.

Buddy, you are looking great. Keep us all posted on progress!

MX-Brad 03-15-2021 08:36 PM

Hi,
Yeah I ordered and received the H model of lifter. Unfortunately one was out of spec and would’t go into the hole with the heads already bolted down, so I ordered another set and pushrods. They arrive tomorrow and I have the next day off, so will hopefully get the rest of this buttoned up. Hoping to start reassembly of the car over the weekend. Will keep you updated.

MX-Brad 03-24-2021 10:02 AM

Parts arrived finally. Got my lifters in. A few were still stubborn going into the holes with the heads already installed. I had to give a few of them a gentle sideways tap to get them in their bores. Valvetrain adjusted to 1/2 turn past zero lash.
Hit a minor holdup when I bolted on the valve covers. I knew I had to ditch the oil baffle and grind some casting down on the pass side cover. Missed that the drivers side has a similar casting that needed cut down. Got the lower intake installed and then finally got the engine, trans and driveshaft back in the car. Exhaust, wiring and plumbing left to do. Could be running this weekend.
Cheers.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...3f126c0a8.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...26ef08017.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...93be7a205.jpeg

engineer 03-25-2021 05:29 PM

Hi Brad,

Looking great!! :)

One word of advise, if you have removed the oil baffles from underneath the oil filler neck, then OI would recommend that you use some thick stainless steel wool down the neck of the filler to stop the oil from splashing up the neck AND going into the pipe that feeds into the throttle body. If you leave it open the throttle body will fill up with oil pretty quick as it will suck very oily air :)

Apart form that my friend you are looking like you are back in business!

Cheers

MX-Brad 04-02-2021 04:36 PM

We have a running car again. First start was today. No real drama I have a tps code to track down, but I’ll hook up the laptop and see what’s up. A couple more starts to check for fluid leaks and top up coolant and it’ll be ready for it’s first shakedown drive....probably Sunday.
About that oil baffle.... I had used a clear inline filter on that hose in the past. I’ll try that again and see if it gets too clogged up. If it plugs up with oil I’ll try plan B.
Also I jumpered the clutch safety switch on the pedal so I don’t need the clutch pedal on start up to save wear on the thrust bearing.

MX-Brad 04-02-2021 07:31 PM

Fixed the TPS.....wasn’t plugged in all the way. duh.
But after that it wouldn’t start or would barely catch but immediately die. Happened to check the fuel gauge which was parked on E. Gas cap has been off for the past 6 months sitting in the garage, so it probably evaporated. Will dump some fuel in it on Sunday. lol

MX-Brad 04-03-2021 06:53 PM

Threw some gas in it tonight after work. Starts right up. Will get it off the stands and put on a few break in miles tomorrow. Then an oil and filter change. Starting to feel a little more confident about this build.

engineer 04-04-2021 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by MX-Brad (Post 27667)
Threw some gas in it tonight after work. Starts right up. Will get it off the stands and put on a few break in miles tomorrow. Then an oil and filter change. Starting to feel a little more confident about this build.

great stuff mate 😀 I am so glad its all back together again and ready to rumble. Keen to get your first impressions on the maiden drive.

movieboy4fun 04-04-2021 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by MX-Brad (Post 27667)
Threw some gas in it tonight after work. Starts right up. Will get it off the stands and put on a few break in miles tomorrow. Then an oil and filter change. Starting to feel a little more confident about this build.

Hello Brad, Very cool, I am with Engineer with getting that first impression. You have come a long ways from a stock 5.0, I bet you have a great set of asphalt crayons now !!

Dean0

MX-Brad 04-04-2021 05:50 PM

Well today was pretty spectacular. I got her off the jackstands, let her warm up to temp and took her down the road a couple blocks and back. No smoke, no leaks, runs good. Let it cool down for a bit and took her out again twice as far (fire extinguisher and cell phone on board). Backed her into driveway to give her a bath and buttoned up the interior. Wife and I took it for a little cruise, filled it up drove around some paved backroads to get some good break in miles at various rpm. Not a single issue so far. Will let it cool down and top off coolant and call ot a day. Tomorrow I’ll change out the oil and make sure there’s nothing glittery in the filter. A little anxious about that, but so far so good.
Oh, and it’s really really quick. On first or second drive I was easing into about half throttle in second and the rear broke loose a bit. lol


MX-Brad 04-05-2021 03:53 PM

Went for a quick spin to warm her up to change the oil. Oil looked ok, I had a very tiny bit of silt on my magnetic drain plug. Opened the filter and saw no copper, but there was a small amount of silverish metal in the bottom of the filter. Hoping it’s just a little break in wear. I’ll do another change in a couple hundred miles and see if the metal persists. If it does I’ll pull the rad to do a crank endplay measurement. I checked my TOB preload again. It’s still intentionally set for zero preload so I know there is no issue inside the bellhousing causing thrust bearing issues. I can freely move the fork. Fingers crossed till next oil change, but cautiously optimistic.

MX-Brad 04-05-2021 07:20 PM

Rechecked the timing after a quick drive. I originally set it at 10* on first start Friday before it got warmed up.
When I checked it warm today it was close to 0*. Set it to 10* and the idle smoothed right out. I was actually able to drive around in 3rd at 40kph (30ish mph) without any bucking. Tach at about 1500rpm. That’s great because I’ve always been fighting with a low speed bucking from first build.
AND, I’m kinda takin’ it easy to break it in, but that timing change made a noticeable difference going through the gears. So far so good.

engineer 04-05-2021 09:13 PM

Hi Brad,

That's great news!! I am so happy for you. Dont be worried about the slight metallic soot, its normal to see a tiny amount of metallic slime and its not the same as your metal deposits previously. The timing at 10 degrees is perfect and from what you are saying its all seeming very healthy and normal. Also make sure you just drive it nomally, dont baby it and dont thrash it. The car needs to do a variety of loads and speeds in the first few hundred miles. So go up hills, alter gearing as you drive, vary revs, do compression braking it and open it up gently on occasions to seat the rings properly. Go through as many differing load situations as you can. Dont just cruise it at 70 mph. You want the engine getting a healthy spread of load.

Also make sure the oil you use is NON friction modified and classed as "break in" oil. Some synthetics can "glaze" cylinder walls and the rings never wear on properly. I have had it happen to me :)

No need to pull the radiator to measure the end play, it will be fine as I am confident you (and the machine shop) did everything correctly. Just drive and enjoy.

Change the oils and filter at:
50-100 miles
500 miles
1500 miles

Then after every 3000 miles or so. You switch to full synthetic oil 10W40 (Neo oil is my favourite) after you have done 1500-2000 miles.

Follow the above and the engine will be golden even after 100K miles :)

Post some pics buddy!

Also make sure you get it custom tuned for the best results...after its broken in.

Cheers,


MX-Brad 04-11-2021 04:50 PM

Quick update. Put another couple hundred miles on her and changed the oil and filter today. Drain plug had nothing on it, oil looked ok, and no signs of copper in the filter. I used a fine mesh gravy strainer when draining and it picked up just a few tiny grains of what looks like aluminum. Seems to be non magnetic. So, I think I can safely declare victory on the bottom end. Thrust bearing nightmare seems to be over. Hurray!

I do have a couple other, hopefully minor issues:
The valvetrain is noisier than I was hoping. I was real careful about measuring for proper pushrod length. And I set lifter preload at exactly 1/2 turn past zero lash. It was noisy enough that I pulled the upper and valve covers off the other day and reset them all to 5/8 of a turn. When doing so, I noticed that #6 and #7 exhaust valve lifters were not pumped up. All the others are. I can push those 2 lifters in by hand easily.
I’d pulled the plugs to turn the engine over easily and noticed that #7 plug was very dark compared to the rest. I swapped plugs with another hole so I could see if the condition moved with the plug or stayed at the hole. Drove it a hundred miles or so. No real difference in valvetrain noise .....possibly a tiny bit quieter. Checked the plugs, and #7 is dark. (different plug, same hole). So, I’m not sure if the 2 issues are related. The dark plugs seems like it would be a faulty injector. I did have this set (stock 19lb) tested last fall. Since the car is still back up on stands for the oil change, I think I may try to adjust lifters to 3/4 turn, and swap out the injector to another cylinder to see the result.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
I really don’t want to pull the lower manifold unless absolutely necessary.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...d8d46388a.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...9ff3f1a65.jpeg

engineer 04-14-2021 12:08 AM

Hi Brad,

That oil looks perfect. I think you are 100% good :). The metal is likely a bit of scuff from the roller rockers, there is always a little bit of wear in that area. if all parts (pushrods and roller rockers) are new, so a bit of tiny metal sludge or tiny metal is ok

1) Valvetrain noise: The ed curtis cams and other cams (i.e CompCa,s XE cams) have very fast ramp rates and they do make a clattering sound. You could be fooled into thinking this is an issue if you are used to listening to the valvetrain noise of a stock HO style cam. . Your valve train geometry looked good from the pics. The 1/2 turn past zero lash is correct, but you can go to 3/4 turn and try that. I personally use about 2/3 turn.
2) Black plug = Excessive Oil in cylinder, Overfuelling or intermittent/No spark. I will assume that the rings were all put in the right way to seal properly (please do a cylinder compression test to see if its OK). I will assume that it is. So the next thing is overfuelling, The injectors can get sticky. To test it simply remove and send it away to a shop..OR use a 9 volt battery to trigger it and supply about 40psi of fuel pressure (use a bucket of fuel and on old electric fuel pump) to the fuel intake port of the injector. This will show you if its spraying nicely or just dropping fuel in an uncontrolled manner. If the spray pattern is ugly it may need a clean, OR just replace it with a new one. Assuming the fuel injector is OK, the only thing I can think of is that the plug is not being fired. Check for spark at Number 7 cylinder with engine running, just pull the ignition lead and see if the RPM changes. If no change in engine RPM its got no spark (check ignition wire) , if the RPM drops, then spark is likely OK. Its probably the injector. If you do need to change the injector it may be prudent to put a full set of new ones in. I would upgrade to the 24lb injector at least as you will possibly getting close to maxing out the 19lb injectors at full throttle. For 19 lb/hr injector this will be around 275hp at the flywheel (233 rwhp) at 90% injector duty. A 24 lb/hr injector will give you around 346hp (294 rwhp) at 90% duty cycle. My preference for you is to go to 26 lb/hr or 32 lb/hr assuming you are close to 350 fwhp, but 24 lb/hr is probably OK. But 19 lb/hr is not..
3) You do NOT need to pull the lower intake manifold..so all good. I hate removing them too..:)
4) For piece of mind, connect an oil pressure gauge to the oil sender port and measure the oil pressure just in case its a bit low and not pumping the lifters up...I assume its fine. But just to be sure :)


Keep us posted bro :)

Ford5.0 04-15-2021 09:11 AM

Brad,

Glad to hear you're up and running again. I'm sure you'll get these issues ironed out Your build provided me with inspiration as I was doing mine and although mine is a basically stock build, I thought I would share this with you.

When I first got mine running, I had some low speed bucking issues along with a pop out the exhaust upon acceleration. While checking the spark with one of those adjustable air gap inline testers I discovered that every cylinder would occasionally misfire. Replacing the coil with a new Motorcraft (was using an MSD Blaster) fixed the misfire and bucking but it still had the pop. The spark plugs all looked fine. I then checked each cylinder's exhaust temperature with an infra red thermometer and discovered that #2 cylinder was a little lower than the rest. This led me to believe that #2 was running slightly rich so I figured is was an injector issue. Since they were the original ones that came with my junkyard engine, I replaced them all. That cured my problem.


MX-Brad 04-19-2021 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by Ford5.0 (Post 27695)
Brad,

Glad to hear you're up and running again. I'm sure you'll get these issues ironed out Your build provided me with inspiration as I was doing mine and although mine is a basically stock build, I thought I would share this with you.

When I first got mine running, I had some low speed bucking issues along with a pop out the exhaust upon acceleration. While checking the spark with one of those adjustable air gap inline testers I discovered that every cylinder would occasionally misfire. Replacing the coil with a new Motorcraft (was using an MSD Blaster) fixed the misfire and bucking but it still had the pop. The spark plugs all looked fine. I then checked each cylinder's exhaust temperature with an infra red thermometer and discovered that #2 cylinder was a little lower than the rest. This led me to believe that #2 was running slightly rich so I figured is was an injector issue. Since they were the original ones that came with my junkyard engine, I replaced them all. That cured my problem.

Thanks. All my belly aching and last years engine issues, these posts make it seem like I must hate this car, but it really was fun doing the build and the car is a riot. I’m after perfection... not just “good enough”. I need to lower my standards a bit. lol.
Continued good luck with your car. Thanks for the troubleshooting tips. A spare distributor and coil are already in my Rockauto shopping cart.

A couple of days ago I did a quick compression test. Cold and dry, all holes were within 5 psi of 160.
Today I redid the lifter preload to 3/4 turn. No change in sound, so I guess I’ll try and ignore it. Maybe it’ll get a bit better as the engine breaks in.
I also swapped #7 injector with #2 so I can see if I need new injectors. Plan is to go to 80lb Deka’s as recommended by my remote tuner Decipha.
It’s way overkill, but they can be tuned for my combo, aren’t more expensive than buying smaller ones, and I don’t have to worry about the quality of used injectors or if new ones are counterfeit. But injectors will have to wait till I build the budget back up.


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