SR20 vs. V8 Swap? (Noobie Needs Help)
 

Hey guys. I tried to start a similar thread over at miataturbo.net and they were rather hostile to newbies looking for help. I have a 1993 miata MX-5 that I'd like to make a long-term project car. Kind of a lifelong prized possession type-thing. I'd like it to be a street legal car that I can take to the track and it hold its own. I do not know much about cars but my dad has been a mechanic and built and raced stock cars since he was a teenager so this would be the project that he would teach me with.

Now that I've stated my ignorance and intentions, I'd like some help with a (hopefully) simple decision on which engine to swap into my miata. Right now I'm simply making plans and saving up so I don't consider experience and "know-how" to be an issue. I was told that the SR20DET engine is a great engine swap for a 93 miata. After doing a little bit of research, I've found that many people prefer the V8 swap. I'm curious as to which would be better for a very long-term project. My intentions were originally to swap an SR20 into the miata and gradually upgrade the car whenever I had the money to do so. However the V8 seems to be an easier project and produces more horsepower and torque immediately after the swap.

Seeing to it as I don't have much automotive knowledge, what is the comparison between the long-term upgradability potential between the V8 and SR20? Is there much that can be done to the V8 to improve it after it's been swapped into the car? What about the SR20? Finally, in the end game, which engine would be all around better after hypothetically being "finished" (AKA no more upgrading it)?

Welcome to the forum. This IS a V8 oriented forum, so some of the comments may be biased.

Where are you located? Try to find a V8 conversion in your area and get a ride. That should convert you and eliminate most of your questions.

Personally, I don't really care for the buzzy high rpm solution, even if it's an elegant high HP turbo whatever. Just doesn't get it for me. Makes me nervous. I relate the V8 experience to increased driveability.

As far as upgradeability, someone has a rear mounted turbo on an LS motor that has to be pretty much the epitome of upgrades.

Again, welcome

Mike

Okay awesome! I live in Cary, North Carolina but I don't know how is find someone to give me a ride in their V8 miata. Haha.
Some one the purists say that the best thing you can do to a miata is stick with the 1.8 engine and rebuild it while upgrading it. I've been told that the V8 makes the car impractical on the street. I understand that I'm in a somewhat biased community but that isn't true, is it?

Welcome!
Like Mike mentioned above. There is no substitute for the sound and feel of a solid American V-8 Ford or Chevy.
Jim

Just look at it like your taking a Vette, Camaro or Mustang, adding better suspension and removing about 1000+ pounds. That's practical in my territory.

So it wouldn't be impractical to be a street car with occasional-often trips to the track?

You're in luck... I live in southern Wake County, and recently "finished" my V8Miata swap.

I travel a lot with my job, but would meet up with you within 3-4 weeks or so.

That's awesome! I'd definitely be interested!

Back in Wake County this weekend. If it ain't raining, the Mazda will be around for show-n-tell and ride...

Wow what a fabulous thread! Garrett it is wonderful to meet you and hear your story!

The comments above are right we are a bit biased to the V8 but you won’t find a better group of guys on any forum anywhere then right here. If your situation presented itself to where any of us thought it was not in your best interest to build a car you would hear it straight up.

For me personally the V8 is a total no brainer and it has nothing to do with what is easier to build, the price tag of the build or even power. There are plenty of big boosted 4 bangers that put more power to the ground than my car. For me when I hit that key and hear that beautiful American V8 come to life it never ever fails to raise my heart rate and put a smile on my face. I find myself looking for excuses to run to the store just to go for a spin and even on days like today that it is 34 degrees in Minnesota I can’t wait to get in it and drive TO work. That sound makes your car one very special Miata and when you go to a track or car club event you get one OMG after another over your creation. To be sure there are 4cyl Miatas that are faster on the autocross course but I have the best sound track by a long shot. And OK I would be lying if I didn’t say there is a bit of a thrill just knowing that if I am not gentle when I bang it into 4th at 95 MPH she will break the back tires loose….

As far as a daily driver and a track car goes anyone here will tell you the same thing I’m about to. A properly sorted V8 Miata will smoke any production car short of 80 grand on any track yet you can still flip on the A/C and enjoy date night in it. I’ve been on a couple of pretty good road trips with mine and am planning a 9500 mile trip to Alaska in it with my son next summer. How completly dull it would be to take a sensible car on such a trip! Check out this post. Jim and Jenna build diary, Miata LS1 Conversion: Can the LS1 V8 Miata really be a daily driver?

Upgrades down the road you ask? LOL! I’m on my 3rd cam swap and I would not be surprised if the day comes that a blower is not poking through the hood! The beauty of these cars is the price tag is reasonable. I can go to any parts store and pick up an alternator or power steering pump for 80 bucks and it will probably be in stock. On the Miata side you can get a killer suspension set up for 1000 bucks complete and in my Camaro that would barely cover just the shocks. The last cam swap I did cost me about a 100 bucks after I sold the old one. I have owned a dozen muscle and sports cars over the years and hands down the Miata is the best platform I have ever owned for any aspect of driving including moving my daughter. What? How do you put a couch in a Miata? LOL it tows the trailer so much better than my sensible Toyota wagon does!

Obviously I am long winded and passionate about this and could bore you to death writing all day. But I want to encourage you to spend some time reading around this forum and see what other guys are doing and why they are doing it. This is a great post to start with with lots of links to really great threads: https://www.v8miata.net/introductions-2/newbie-1134/

I also want say that the trip to see Pat (ToySnakePMC) would be worth many MANY hours of driving IMO. Not just to see his recently finished absolutly epic build but becuase he is a heck of a nice guy and after spending an hour with him and his car you will wonder why in the world you ever even considered a SR20...

Oh and yeah welcome to the forum!

A big question, is if you aren't too mechanically savvy, is your father willing to go all the way on something like this? Welding and cutting will be required on either of the bigger LSx swap projects. Custom fabrication is not out of the question. Versus turbocharging the stock 1.6l, either one of these options is considerably more complex.

If you went the turbo 1.6 route and then went v8 down the road, it would kind of be wasted time/money, though.

maybe read this:
http://flyinmiata.com/support/instru...structions.pdf

To get a feel for the work involved. You are basically re-engineering the whole drivetrain, and a lot of questions and different solutions come up. On the SR20 OR the V8, about the same work is involved in most ways. On the SR20 you may be able to avoid swapping the diff, however, you'd need a new way to mount it in the front due to losing the ppf, unless you use a custom trans adapter.

I'm smack in the middle of mine, and I'm a professional mechanic and good welder/fabricator, and its still not what I would call easy. Just a lot of different choices as far as accomplishing certain tasks, from mounts, to locations of various accessories, to fit and finish items.

I came from a high hp 4cyl turbo, so obviously I have chosen the V8 over that option. And you'd have to squeeze a lot out of an SR20 to match most competent V8s.

I don't mean to come off as a dumb ass, but what is an SR20?

Its a Nissan 2.0, Comes in a lot of variets, the SR20 DE-T is a factory turbo option. Decent 4-cylinder with a bottom end that can hold up to 400hp.
Google always works, though ;-)

Thanks. Who needs Google when we have you? LOL!!

Welcome to the forum. You will find plenty of help here because most/all of us have had to encounter the issues that you will face with an engine swap. On that note, it definitely will make it easier to do the swap with a forum and resources on the V8 swap into a Miata as opposed to an SR20. People here have done it and have plenty of experience that they are willing to share not to mention the excellent vendors that cater to this specific task. Best of luck!

i'll be 100% honest. Granted, this is my opinion, but anyone would be WAYY better off to just build the stock 1.8 or hell even the 1.6 and just do a very, very nice turbo build than swapping in a sr20. Yea, they are good. But compared to all the fab, custom this, custom that. A fraction of the price, you could have had a fully built 1.8. and no custom anything.

I agree with TitanGTS. What's the point? You'll take out a 1.6/1.8 liter engine (which is very good, BTW), and custom fab all the components needed to install a 2.0. That's a lot of work for very little gain.

If you want to stick with 4 cylinder, just add a turbo and associated off the shelf components to the Miata engine for a real kick in power. You can hit the 400+HP mark, but then you need to pay attention to the differential, driveshaft, trans, etc, to handle all that power. Now you're talking real money.

The value of the V8 (IMO) is reliable power for the same money. Start doing the math. The V8 swap requires that you upgrade everything behind the engine to handle the power. No matter what engine you use, that's all going to cost the same. Except for the transmission, which is cheaper with the LS1

The engine is where it matters. Take a close look at what it takes to get 400+ reliable hp from a 4 cylinder. The simple and cheap answer is an LS1. It doesn't get any easier.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. :)

last post from OP was 5-13. Wonder if the project kicked off?

I find it interesting that the uninformed think the V8 swap makes the car useless for the street or it ruins the handling. But then again the Miata forums and clubs are pretty full of two main camps, older racers and those that have less life experience (trying to be kind to the later). Both annoy me with their 'tudes. It's gotten to the point this is the only Miata site I visit unless I'm putting Google through it's paces for specific information.

^^^ agree. I've always believed that unless I've experienced an event before, I remain silent. Ignorance can be innocent though when assumptions are made, it becomes annoying. Hell, my car on stock suspension with the ls1 set up drove like a regular miata and acted as one in the turns. Though with searching online, you'll see those who preach the car will be "ruined" or "worthless". Upon further inspection, you come to understanding that those who stated this false info, drive a stock car without event the lowest of hopes to ever swapping it.

I have a feeling that he is probably in his teens and his father told him 'forget about it'. As much as I love cars there is no way I would have undertaken a project like this with my son before he was in his mid 20s. There are very few new drivers that can handle the power of a V8 Miata.

You said a mouthful here! The notion that an iron V8 ruins the handling characteristics of the car is a myth that keeps coming up and getting shot down over and over. I get really tired of defending this and one of the reasons I want to add more topics here and stay on after the build!