movieboy4fun

I am sure I am not trodding on new found ground but just because I need to feed the DIY beast inside, below is a few things I have learned in my quest of finding a new approach with easy to mod parts:

1) Martins new 1" x 18" X 32spline 4340 axles / 7.5 Tbird CV's $495.00 US,($720ca + Duty/Taxes= $950ca plus $270 for rebuilt axles= $1220.00 ca plus broached hubs from Martin + $300.00ca = Total $1520.00ca) but no shock relocation required.

2) New 18" axles from Factory 5, 1.2" Diameter x 18.25" x 36spline 4340 / 8.8CV's, Got pair shipped to Canada for $240US, ( $380ca after brokerage / taxes / Duties plus $300 for rebuilt CV's and $300 for broached / Machined hubs = Total $980.00ca ) This will require the relocation of the shock to clear the 4" lower CV but best deal for big axles with a 600HP rating.

3) Purchase Driveshaft Shop's plug and play axles, $1199.00 US, ($2100.00 ca with shipping and duties inc. to door) Easy but not on the wallet!!

4) Sandrail Axles, Depending on rear Center this can be a very easy DIY way to go, in this case ford 8.8, 31 spline stub shafts,( 28 spline spiders changed to 31 spline) to 930 CV drive flange $500US, plus 4@ 930 CV's / Boots $400US, Axles any length from 15" to 22" $250US 28spline 1.2" dia. Hard part here is still need to find a hub to fit the Miata spindle and the available stub axles to 930CV's. one hack the Rock Crawler DIY crowd shared with me is the 28 spline 930 axle will fit the 97-03 F0RD F150 outer CV then use the hub set up from a 2000ish Dodge intrepid(spacer required on stub shaft) to mate with the 33spline x 1.490" drive stub and maintain the 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. This works for the 4x4 guys however Micro stubs are available in 27 spline 31 spline, 33 spline. I am sure a bit more hunting will find a hub that just needs to be turned down, easy to do but seems like re-splining an axle is a thing of the past. I will add to this as I discover more info for junkyard hacks.

I also found this info below so I am about to check as many as I can find and record the axles length's and outer CV / Stub shaft size and spline count. Being that all the below vehicles use the TP-21658A Tri-pod they must all have 32 spline 1" axle shafts on the top side. If anybody can add to this please do, I an enjoying the challenge but the net can only take me so far, now I need to visit a parts yard and start my homework.
Vehicles that use the same inner Tri-Pod set up.

TP-21658A

91-94 Chrysler LeBaron & GTS (GKN design)
91-96 Chrysler New Yorker, Fifth Ave., Limo, E Class (GKN design)
91-95 Chrysler Town & Country 2WD (GKN design)
91-95 Dodge Spirit (GKN design) 91-95
92-95 Dodge Caravan (GKN design) 92-95
1993 Ford Probe 2.0 & 2.5L A/T 1993
94-97 Ford Probe 2.0L A/T R/Side 94-97
94-97 Ford Probe 2.5L A/T 94-97
88-89 Ford Taurus 3.8L 88-99
89-95 Ford Taurus SHO 89-95
89-97 Ford Thunderbird 7.5 Ring Gear
95-99 Ford Windstar 95-99
1998 Lincoln Continental 3.8L
1993 Mazda 626, MX6 4cyl.
94-99 Mazda 626, MX6 2.0L, A/T R/Side
94-99 Mazda 626, MX6 2.5L, A/T
89-97 Mercury Cougar 7.5 ring Gear
88-99 Mercury Sable 3.8L
91-94 Plymouth Acclaim (GKN design)
92-95 Plymouth Voyager & Grand Voyager (GKN design)
92-96 Toyota Camry 2WD 4cyl., 2.2L

Thanks
Dean0
PS - looks like I will use the Factory Five axles I have and relocate the shocks but there will be another, LOL.

V8droptop

I think you can get away with the FFR axles if you use an Audi boot kit, correct? Or am I mistaken on this one? Either way, it seems like one of the best options. If you wanted to go 5-lug, or even 5-lug rear 4-lug front, you can take a T-bird/Ford cobra hub and turn it down slightly to fit the Miata rear wheel bearing. The machining for turning a set of hubs should be really cheap.

Btw, what was the $330 for rebuilt CV's on the FFR axles for? Did you buy a used set or upgrade them somehow?

movieboy4fun

The $300 for CV's should read New Rebuilt axles as I only have the 99 cobra set(useless) or the set of 1" CV's from the stock 92 Tbird I robbed parts from. This means I need to buy a set of Rebuilt Cardone axles for V8 Tbird at $135 ea plus taxes at the local Parts shop so thats the $300.00 I added. I have the Audi boot so I will soon find out once I start mock-up. I have a metal lathe at home so you are right when you say turning down is easier. Think I would rather 4 jaw the Carrier and bore it the extra 20 thou needed to fit the cobra wheel bearing along with a shim as the F0RD bearing is thinner than the mazda.

Just in the process of drawing up 930 drive flanges that I will be able to TIG weld to my Cobra 28 spline hubs after I cut the CV off and machine a step in to fit the new 4130 - 930 CV flange. I did find a shop in Vancouver BC that will cut the 32 spline 1" dia 18" long axle shafts for me but minimum run is 5 pairs at $500ca a set for 4340. $2500ca investment for me. May go that option as I know I will be building more of these little beasts in the future.

Still want to try the DIY with junkyard parts if I can, quest is on

Dean0

V8droptop

So, again, Call me crazy, but aren't the FFR axles about $250 a set, complete? I bought mine outright for about that from FFR. Why do you need rebuilt new axles? Are you trying to replace some parts for more strength, as from what I understand the FFR's should be fine out of the box unless you are adding FI.

Just confused a bit, is all.

Here's what I did, and a few others have done similar. From the Wheel/hub inward:

Ford Cobra 5x4.5 Hubs (Ford racing part) Turned down to fit Miata Bearing

Spacer for FFR axle against rear of bearing

Audi CV boot for outer CV joint

FFR axles mentioned in your #2 option, New from FFR ($250ish)

Ford Racing TIIR Torsen diff inside Lincoln MKVIII diff

All of this so far seems to work. My subframe was just taken out for powder so I can't reference anything right now, but in a week or so I can.

Btw, on the subject of 31 spline stub shafts,( 28 spline spiders changed to 31 spline) you can get the Torsens for 28 or 31 spline here (but much cheaper elsewhere) so if you come across either axle you can find a diff (trac-loc, torsen, etc) to work with it.

I'm interested to hear what you find in option 4, that sounds very interesting. I stopped researching once I found what worked for me, and I feel the FFR axles should handle what I am going for. But sounds like you have a lot of time into all the options laid out, looking forward to it.

movieboy4fun

V8droptop
Lets see if I can cure some of that confusion, LOL. In the effort to keep this project as DIY as I can make it the very first thing I ordered was Just the bare axle shafts,($89USea, after customs,brokerage,shipping and our shitty dollar= $240US/$380CA), from Factory Five for the start of the project. I have planned on using these axle bars from day one but the DIY bug has bit me and I kinda feel like I am cheating if I just go order axles from Martin, driveshaft shop or FFRacing that are complete CV to CV. I truly may cost myself money using this approach but the knowledge gained along the way is GOLDEN!!

As to option 4, I have found that the 91-95 Town + Country outer stub shaft appears to have the same 26 spline 1.090" dia as the stock NA Miata hub and and also has the 32 spline Tri Pod - TP-21658A inner CV, might be a way to save the broaching and the axle shaft itself is looking close to right length. At least on the web, now yard research time to see if a Miata hub fits on the Van stub shaft and check axle length.

I understand how to make it all work if I just want to write a cheque and "get er done". This is an effort to see if I can find a way to accomplish this without having to buy custom parts and share my knowledge gained with the DIY Hotrod community.

Love this $h1T, keeps the brain active and the Hacker spirit alive.

Dean0

charchri4

I like the way you think Dean0!

V8droptop

Well congrats for the effort, I'm hoping it pays off. I would say, if we all get lucky and the Town& Country axle works, you will have found the cheapest means to an end available. Aside from that I think it comes down to cost of machine work. For me, turning a set of hubs was cheaper than broaching, and I feel I kept all the strength I could in the right places. I've removed very minimal amount of material from the hub so I feel its going to be fine, and I didn't compromise on the outer stub, so hopefully, 600hp is realistic.

Have to admit, I think even with that way, you'd be $300-400 or so cheaper with the Town and country stub than me (in my dollars), and obviously inner can be from any ford product. I actually got the Lincoln Diff, axles, hubs, and ABS stuff for about $180, it can be really cheap around the midwest. I found a few examples. So you'd be pocket change with Dodge/ford parts and just the FFR stubs. I'm not sure what the weak link in the setup would be, the outer stub? But probably still very stout, much more so than the miata/FoMoCo hybrid axles.

Of note, my most expensive piece was my hubs. The pair was about $310, and 150 for machining. My total was around $720, plus a few odds and ends including extended wheel studs. You can save a ton by using T-bird hubs (not 5x114.3) or you can redrill the tbird hubs to 5x4.5(5x114.3). The cobra hubs are super marked up compared to a while back. You can buy a front hub w/bearing for about 40, or a rear w/no bearing for 150+. Supply/demand, yay capitalism.

**Edit. I had to search ebay. Damnit! cobra Hub, 110 BIN

charchri4

Yeah but for the average non big block build those town and countrys would work fine. Especially anyone doing an auto or V6 who would be less likely to shock them with hard launches. I am very excited to see how this comes out!

v8miatanet

Deano, Jerry here from calgary.

This is that company. Maybe they don't do 600hp, ?
Ordering Quality CV Axles from Raxles - Raxles Inc.


Here are some great articles from the guy that built my blue one (machine shop owner like you)...
Engine re and re
Best way to pull 5.0/AOD motor? - MX-5 Miata Forum
Axles and broaching
V8 -- Looking for a 28 spline broach - MX-5 Miata Forum
6 pages of crap, but a few morsels of info...
IRS ideas? - Page 6 - MX-5 Miata Forum

v8miatanet

Some of the turbo dodge vans can get in the 11-12 second range. That axle should hold up no?
DDG- The Transmission Guide

movieboy4fun

Jerry,
Thanks for info with Raxels, I actually emailed about getting axles built and they said they no longer offered that service. I didn't pursue further as I had found a local supplier.

As to the Towne and Country stuff I have had to leave town for a bit. All the way to FORT $$ and I won't be able to visit the yard to pull an axle and check it out for a week or two. The only reason I suspect there is a standard axle that will work is why do you have to use a .500" seal spacer with martin's axles and it appears to be about .22" using the Ffive axles? If Martin's were truly custom would they not be closer to the right length? The dust seal surface on the F0RD axle is the same 2.120 Diameter as the Miata stub shaft, I have yet to try and fully engage the F0RD axle stub into the Miata broached hubs to see if they clear or rub on the Miata spindle. Just got things painted and getting ready to press in new bearings and mock up my rear to test tripod engagement with my Ffive axles. It's just small details like the above that make me think. Congrats on Martin getting this all to work, anyone attempting this project soon finds out it can be a hand full and the amount of research and development must have been enormous. I am glad he offers a broached hub as I was having a very difficult time finding a shop to do it. I was actually going to order a custom broach at one point, still may.

I have a set of 99 Cobra hubs but saving those for round two along with a 99 cobra 8.8. Could not pass up at $400 and I ended up reselling the sub-frame and spindles for $150. Great Deal!! If any one cares I just bought the last two V8 Tbird axles in CANADA. Miller/Wyatt, NAPA and Lordco - no Current Canadian stock. There was no stock on the Audi outer CV except at Audi for $110 ea .... YIKES The same boot also fits a 2003 VW Passat 4.0L W8 / Beck/Arnley 103-3015. Just has an extra bolt you don't need and my local supplier had stock at $20 ea.

More to come

Dean0

cvx_20

The spacer does a couple of things. If the CV is much larger than the stock Miata CV, it will rub on the spindle, how much it will rub depends on the particular CV. Factory Five axles have the large CV's as found on the original V8 Tbird/Cougar/Lincoln, and they rub unless spaced out by about .22-.25".

The second function of the spacer is to provide a seal surface (diameter) for the Miata dust seal, since the original seal surface is now moved out. Obviously, any other CV solution may not need the spacer or could have different dimensions.

A third function may be to "adjust" the overall length of the axle assembly to ensure proper engagement of the tripod, etc.

I am under the impression that Mark Williams is the go-to shop for hub broaching. Altho I have not personally used them, since I went the 5-hole route, others have with some success:

https://www.markwilliams.com/broaching.aspx

Keep up the good work, we really need a bolt-in, off the shelf, inexpensive solution for axles.

Mike

V8droptop

Agreed, there is a lot of little parts of the swap that can have money tried from them, axles are such a huge investment currently.

GT1986

Regarding the FFR axles, the more info I find, the more confused I get. Somebody has a nice post in here saying to order the standard length axles. FFR says they've sold the pin drive (shorter) axles to V8 Miata people. In addition, trolling the FFR forums tells me the original FFR axles were too short for their cars and they were supplying longer axles. So now I don't know what to trust. I talked to an FFR person who quoted me the compressed length of 28.375" for the standard and 27.625" for the pin drive. I neglected to ask if those were new or old lengths.

Any thoughts? Thanks

cvx_20

I really don't want to add to the confusion, but I have installed at least 3 sets of the "long" standard (non pin-drive) FFR axles in Miatas with 8.8 rear ends. They were not the pin drive axles. They were the standard axles. They fit like they were designed for the car. I have a set of those axles on the shelf, they measure 29 5/8 end-end compressed, which is consistent with the info you quoted above regarding the pin drive axles as being 27 5/8, or 2" shorter. It appears that FFR has changed the standard length in response to users having the axles pull out during use, but I don't understand why they would be shorter.

The old info that I have says the pin drive axle bars were 16", the standard were 18" and the stock Tbird was 20". At one time you could buy just the axle bars from FFR. Their instructions indicate this as well:

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...-STD-rev-K.pdf

See pages 10 and 11.

It may be that FFR's recent addition of the "new" IRS from the late model Mustangs has confused the issue somewhat.

Mike

GT1986

Thanks for the info Mike. I'll give FFR a call tomorrow and order a standard length and give it a try. I already bought the rebroached hubs from Martin. It will be nice to resolve this piece of the puzzle. Mike

sebz

Maby that can help you.

https://www.v8miata.net/v8-miata-dri...tom-axle-2603/

GT1986

OK, so I installed a FFR axle, and it fits like a glove.....a really tight glove. But a glove none the less. I would be more comfortable if it was about 1/2" shorter. Anyway, I bought the Monster Miata spacers which are 1/2" thick and had them milled down to 3/8". They now fit to the inner spindle/upright seal perfectly, and the outer upright seal and the outer CV seal play nice together. I just have to deal with the CV boot and my shock. I have aftermarket coilovers and the shock body is a bit thicker than stock. BTW, the compressed length on the FFR axles is 30". The distance on the Miata from the diff housing seal to the upright seal is 20-5/8", and the corresponding measurement on the FFR axles compressed is basically the same. Like I said, a really tight glove.

Not that I want to do it, but has anybody seen a rear shock relocation setup? I'm curious what was done.

Thanks for the advice. Mike

T984runner

just wondering if anything ever panned out on the town and country axles? And btw I think this is the most informative thread I have ever read thank you!

movieboy4fun

T984runner
Been so busy I have not had the opportunity to go any further with my research, Haven't even had the chance to look at my personal project for over 6 months. Wife has been encouraging me to get the project finished for this spring so I hope to find time soon to get back at it. Was hoping that a fellow enthusiast would happen to own a town and country and could grab a quick measure of the axle shaft to see if it is in the ballpark. I agree, there is a lot of awesome info in this thread.

Dean0

CJ9694

New to the V8 forum but have been all over MT and some of the others and have also been trying to track down a DIY solution. I was excited to see the post about the 92-95 Town and Country spline being the same. So I "rented" one from Orielly's to see if it would fit the Miata Hub. No such luck the spline is too big by about 1mm. Unless they pulled the wrong part. Here is a link to the part that I looked at.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...WD%2FAWD&pos=0

MovieBoy where did you get the bearing list from in your first post? direct from GKN? I cannot find a catalog anywhere and their website sucks. I can confirm that the Protege5 uses the same spline as the miata but uses bigger flanges with a 5x4.5 bolt pattern (much stronger then the miata hub flange that is known to crack and fail).

movieboy4fun

Great to see the DIY crowd pushing forward with this as my life took a bit of a change a few years ago with my new company and I have just not been able to find time to get back to my project.The info I found on the axle details was not easy and I have to agree that the internet is getting tight on its shared information, not like the good old days, ( been www. savy and online since 1991 and rocked BBS's since 1984, LOL, first modem was 180 baud on my C64, could type faster), anyways enough geeking out!! I got my info from a KOTEK Catalog - named (CV Catalog 2010 KOTEK.pdf). I would share it with the community but it is 13.8megs in size. Most email servers stop at 5M and less, Page 270 has the info about the common tripod bearings that I used but failed to guess that the tripod bearing carrier would have a different spline. This PDF has everything you could want for individual axle pieces, includes pictures and dimensions. Happy to share, just need 14Megs of space to park the file or possibly a search online of the above file name will yield some results.

EDIT - ( Just want to add that I was only looking to utilize the actual axle bar, I was hoping to remove the axle bar from the dodge axle and installing it in the F0RD axle and having it the correct length. I never intended on using the whole axle unless it fit, I happen to have 2 Cobra rear hubs that will just need to be turned down to fit the Miata carrier bearing and RX7 hubs to convert to 5 bolt. If somebody could find a spline to fit the miata hub, F0RD stub shafts / tripod carrier for cheap then you might just be a Miata GOD!! LOL. Love what Martin has done for the community but I do find his axles a bit pricey in CAD$ by the time Trudeau finishes with his retirement TAX addition.) As mentioned before I found a shop in Vancouver, BC that will cut a set for $500CAD but will need to order a minimum of 5 sets, I also found a retired machinist said he would do it for $250 but he works at his own speed, I paid the $250 but its been 14 months waiting so far, good thing I don't need em for current build.

Hoping to get back to my project next month as I have Spring Racing Fever, LOL.

Keep moving forward

Dean0