Future 5.0 NB1 from North Alabama
 

Hey yall, I tried to make a very long intro post last Thursday, but I guess it wasn't approved, so I'll shorten it up a little.

Name's Jason, I'm 42, been in North Alabama all my life, married to a very understanding woman, we don't have kids, but we did buy a 2000 Miata LS this past April, for a couple of purposes.

1-To have a fun little sports car, that we can enjoy on the weekends (Wife's reason and partially mine)

2-To drop an 8 in it and make people look twice (My reason)

So, we've owned it for 8 months now and I've driven it maybe 8 times, LOL! I tuned up the stock 1.8, upgraded to KYB shocks/struts, upgrading brakes and sway bars and a few other small thing.

I'm 6'5" and 250lbs. I've done all the tall guy mods.

Recently, I've changed front bumper and added a nice 3 piece "Viper" style spoiler. I finally installed a 2" smaller diameter Momo wheel too.

Tomorrow after work, I'm making a 2-3 hour round trip to pick up a nice 8.8 T-Bird rear end for $175!

I'm planning on using Martin's kit, I have his manual already and I've looked at the General Swap Info-Fords thread, several times, that Jason has posted. I've watched Gabriel 5.0 youtube videos several times!

Debating on buying an Explorer 5.0 used and buying a new T-5 from Summit.

Has Martin or anyone figured out the header fitment on the GT40p heads yet?

I'm also debating on using the same 5.0, but going carb'd, instead of FI.

Thanks for having me!
Jason

Welcome to the forum.

You picked a good year to do a swap into as the 1999 thru 2001 are in a sweet spot as they have simpler electronics but have the advantages offered by the NB over the NA body style. Make sure you do a build thread with pictures so we can see your progress.

You are about the biggest guy that I remember posting about owning and driving a Miata.
Being a small guy myself, I sure have a tough time imagining you shoehorning yourself into such a small car.

The biggest recommendation I can make is to read over all the Ford 5.0 swap threads and pick the one or two that most closely follow your desired path.
The threads that are similar will answer most of your questions and also give you good information to make your swap go as smoothly as possible.
I saved myself countless hours and headaches by reading over the Chevy swap threads and printing out specific parts that I wanted to follow. It also helped me to put the swap steps into a workable order so that things happened in a logical fashion without too much wasted time. The Miata is a small vehicle and so space is at a minimum. Certain areas absolutely need to have steps performed in a specific sequence to minimize removing and installing pieces multiple times.

Have a realistic budget in mind but be aware that "might as well do it while the car is apart" will add substantially to the cost. I probably cost myself an additional $5000 due to such items and am still adding stuff. One weak area of the NB Miata is instrumentation. You see lots of nice gauges in the dash but several of them are actually idiot gauges that don't actually give accurate readings. Because of this you will need to spend some $$$ to get actual gauges that give accurate information on the engine parameters. Just one example.

Have you checked into doing an LS based swap rather than a Ford swap?
There are advantages and disadvantages of each but the worst thing I could see happening is a person following one path and then wishing they had followed the other after getting the swap done.
The biggest advantages of an LS based swap that I could find are these.

A: LS engines are so common across so many General Motors platforms that parts are normally the least expensive for the amount of horsepower and there is such a wide variety of parts available that exterior engine accessories can be gotten that will fit within the parameters of a Miata swap. It is also a newer design than the Ford. You might not care about that since you intend to switch over to a carb. Personally you could not get me to go back to those days. I absolutely love the precise adjustability of electronic fuel injection. You will also probably be taking a hit on the value of your completed build by going old school.

B: The LS platform factory performance runs from a low of about 325 HP and rolls up to the 535HP crate engine so there is no reason you can't get a good amount of HP right from the beginning with any desired performance level being simple and straight forward to obtain if you desire to down the road.
The Ford 5.0 based engines start out with a lower HP and it appears to me to take more money to get to a higher performance level.

C: The T5 transmission is available for both Ford and GM applications but the T56 transmission found in 1998 thru 2002 Z28's is good for more HP and so could be a better choice to start with if you can afford the extra money. The T5 can be upgraded to reliably handle more torque but you are into T56 cost to do so and you still miss out on the 6th gear overdrive. Personally I really love the 6th gear for highway driving. You already know this from driving your Miata but one gripe I had was that the car would be turning 4000 rpm when driving along at 80 mph. With the T56 and 3.23 gearing my car is loafing along below 2000 rpm at 80 mph making the car way better for the times that highway driving happens.

Thanks for the welcome.

But, I have a posting question now?

It won't let me reply a lengthy post or reply with a quote.

It says, something like, "Your post needs to be reviewed before being approved to post, an administrator will review it first"

So, I can't answer what you asked me....

Well, lets get your post count up by asking one question at a time.

So, what is your budget?

I actually don't have a budget and I'm constantly changing my mind as what I wanna do? I was gonna save a small amount and buy a certain part, then save and buy another part, etc, etc... I don't want to have more than $10k in the complete V8 swap. The replies on the V8 Miata Facebook group are very assuring of my wishes and frankly, are turning me off on doing any kind of V8 swap... Next question? :)

Keep reading build threads and changing your mind till a plan comes together and stays mostly firm.
Also, on the budget, make sure and do a list of swap specific pieces with an estimated cost and keep that separate from other non-swap related upgrades.
My lists have sort of meshed because of the mind set of "might as well do this other stuff as long as the car is apart" and the total cost can really jump as a result.

Some things you can do to your Miata before tackling the swap is this stuff because it will be the same if you go thru with the swap or not and you might very well decide not to do a swap after spending money an all these upgrades;
tires & wheels
brakes
bigger sway bars
top quality coil over shocks
roll bar
any body or rust repair
interior upgrades or repairs

Next question.

What is your reasoning for going with a Ford engine over an LS based engine?

I ask this because both builds make use of the same transmission and rear differential & axle choices.
Once you actually start spending engine specific money you become focused on that specific path so the time to make a definite decision is before that time.
A YouTube video you might check out is linked just below and is a Miata guy who is doing a V8 swap with the same $10,000 budget you mentioned.
He did a turbo addition first and then progressed from deciding on a 4 cylinder swap to a 6 cylinder swap and finally ended up at a V8 swap and has good solid reasons.

The posting rules suck on this forum! I just answered your question, (that I never got a notification when you replied), and tried to answer it short and it still gave me that lame message about being approved before posting....

I was planning on an FFS supercharger after the V8 dream slowly dissipated and I started replacing all the worn out stuff. I've installed everything you mentioned, but didn't go with coilovers. The car is completely rust-free. Wife and I went for a little run to a friend of ours restaurant tonight and smelled a little oil when we got to his place and then again, when we got home. That's the first time I've smelled oil since I bought it. Until tonight, it hasn't been driven in almost 3 months either... So, I'm wondering if the stock 1.8 is gonna need a build? And if it is, I'll definitely consider adding 4 more cylinders!

Main reason Ford over LS? Cost. I can get a 5.0 engine, trans, harness and computer for roughly $1500. I can't even find an LS engine for that price. At one time, I was thinking about using a L33 5.3 out of any GM fullsize truck? Having awful luck finding an affordable T-bird rearend and have asked about other options before, only to get replies, bashing me for wanting to go Ford, instead of GM.

I'm not looking to make a ton of power, that's why I was thinking FFS. I WILL NOT be auto-crossing or racing. It's our 1-3 times a month fun car, that mostly sees curvy mountain roads. I'm looking for the most reliable, bang for buck system.

Next question?

I agree with Ford over Chevy, cost is much less and you can find tons of used aftermarket parts out there as well. I have a build thread in the Ford area if you want to check it out. Used Martin kit for the most part, although I did make some minor changes along the way. My project is nearing completion and should be on the road in the spring. I had a turbo 4 in the car prior to the V8, while the turbo was fun, the V8 will be more reliable and less fussy running on OEM ECU vs piggyback or A/M ECU (I was running early Megasquirt with my turbo and was never happy with the drivability, but that could have just been me).

Good luck!

Thanks! In April, when I bought my car, I joined a local Miata only "club". They ride once a month. The majority of them are 55+ years old and the Miata is their daily driver. When I mentioned a 5.0 swap, I got bashed... Most said, "If you have to do something to it, just put an FM Voodoo II in it, that way there's not much to remove, if you want to return to stock..." Not very good support from people in a club I just joined and why would I want to go back to stock?

I'll check out your thread!

Thanks again

Yeah, there are purists out there that have that attitude. Most ppl that I tell about it are shocked that it will fit, then when I tell them the power to weight, they are thoroughly impressed.

I drove mine every day for the two years I had it. There is no way I would ever want to put it back to stock nor did i ever regret it. When I drove it for the short time I had it prior to the Ford 5.0 conversion the car was truly a blast (never - and I mean never did I take the gas pedal off the floor - mashed 100% of the time as it had little power for sure). Handling with the V8 was still amazing. The acceleration and torque of the V8 in this platform is amazing.

There are hundreds of thousands (?) of Miatas out there for the "purists" to acquire so let's not get concerned about "preserving" them at this point! And what the kids are doing to them? (stanced, ridiculously stretched tires, pulled fenders to the point of...). Also, and this is important, a clean V8 swap seems to take the value of these cars to a new level beyond even maybe a low mileage perfect preserved Miata value so...

Enjoy the swap!

Also, just to confirm. I did try the Martin headers on GT40P heads. They do not work... Passenger side kinda works but the driver side is a definite no

Next question is why the Ford 8.8 over the Getrag differential?

It is something I really struggled over because there are pluses and minuses to each one.
One big plus that I see to the 8.8 is that an electric locker is available and could be real useful for straight line performance.
The biggest plus to the Getrag is the compact size which gives good exhaust clearance without the need to hang the exhaust lower than the rest of the car.

On the negative comments that you got in the past from considering doing a V8 swap into your Miata, you have come to the right place.
One thing I have NEVER seen in any of the posts on here is bashing a Miata swap.
There is a good bit of point and counterpoint concerning if it is better to do a V6 or LS V8 or Ford V8 or some other flavor of swap but never has anybody who has done a serious look at a swap tried to make the claim that it will "ruin a nice car" or that it will be a waste of time and effort.

From my personal experience, (other than the amount of money that was spent) actually swapping a V8 into my Miata made it superior in every way that I can list with the exception of a slight weight gain.
Don't get me wrong, the whole conversion process is a series of changes from factory condition and can be looked upon as trashing a fine car if that is your mind set.
For that reason purists could possibly stick up their noses and I can tell you for sure that some were sticking up their noses at me for taking a 2000 Special Edition that was in excellent condition and improving the car in several ways. Too bad, it is my car and my choice, and hopefully you will have the same pride in your accomplishments as you go thru the process.
It's not like Miata's are Hemi Cuda's or big block Clevelle's or any other flavor of rarified car that is historically special.

The 8.8? I guess since that's what Martin recommended. I had no clue you could use the Getrag from, (I assume a CTS), with the 5.0? I'm still reading build threads on here and I honestly don't know if I wanna do an 8 or not, LOL! As of this past Saturday, I haven't driven it in 3 months, as I was doing some body and interior changes. After I got all the lights back in, we drove it Saturday and Sunday. Not sure I can handle it being frozen for 2+ years. I don't even have anything in the garage to start the swap, other than the car, of course.... Gotta leave for work, I'll add more tonight.

I went the 7.5 Ford route. Based on weight and planned power goals, figured it was good enough. Have factory trac lok in it now, plan on getting torsen.

I'm actually unsure if I really even wanna do a swap. I read about half your build page. I like the idea of an 8, but unsure if all the work involved and the finished product will be worth it, from my perspective? I saw an NA with a complete 5.0 swap on Facebook the other day for $6500... I like my car, but I have about $5000 in it now, with purchase price and all the upgrades I've done. And some of those "upgrades" are worthless with an 8... I think the more I think about a swap, I almost feel like an Ecotec 2.4 is what I'd like to have, besides the rumble of a V8. Not sure if yall will bash me for thinking about that swap, but I could get an engine, the swap kit and everything for a little over $5000 and still use my trans/rearend :) Honestly, other than the rumbling V8, I really only want more torque out of my car, cause 112ft lbs is pathetic.... Ecotec will be close to 200 ft lbs :) But, like I said, I'm still undecided on what to do.

Understandable. My motivation is that I love the Shelby Cobra, and for me, this is a modern day iteration of that car wit the modern conveniences that make it more usable in my climate. I have thought about a rotary Miata, K swap Miata, Ecoboost V6 Miata, and other swaps as it is such a good platform to swap engines in. Good luck with whatever you decide, it's your car, do what you want with it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Ditto what Jason said.

If you tear your car apart to begin a swap and then change your mind after the car is a pile of parts the chances are good that you will never have the car in running condition again. Lots of cars get sold as a half finished project.

The one thing that decided me on doing a V8 swap is the YouTube series by Turbo Tom where he details the process in about 12 video's that appear to do a very good job running thru the whole bunch of smaller jobs needed to complete the swap. I would recommend that you watch them to decide if doing that many related projects are for you or not.

A 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder swap does have some appeal over a V8 swap.
That being said, unless I am missing something, the Ford or LS V8 swaps seem to be much more straight forward and completely detailed out because of the various "kits" available thru Flyin Miata that make the entire process well defined.
The 4 cylinder & 6 cylinder swaps feel to me like a work in progress with some problem areas to bite a novice.
If there was a set of YouTube video's available to do either of those swaps from start to finish I would probably feel much more comfortable with doing one of those swaps.

I saw an AC Cobra when I was very young, (under 10), and fell in love with it then and still love it to this day, but the more I think about putting $15-$20k into a V8 Miata, I'd rather build a FFR or Unique Motorsports Cobra kitcar, (since I'll never own the real thing), for the same or a little more money. There's one guy in my "club" that is in the process of doing an 8 swap on his, but he won't let me looking at it or anything... He's an odd fella and fairly young retired cop. So, I don't have much motivation around me, other than my friend, who wants me to do it, but isn't helping financially, LOL!

Yea, I've watched his "Thunderbolt" videos. Just looking at his shop and what all he's done to his MSM, looks like he's way more wealthy than I'll ever be... I think the majority of yall are way more wealthier than I.... Some 4 and 6 swaps look like more work involved or more expensive than an 8 swap, but the Ecotec swap is the cheapest and appears to be the simplest 4 cyl swap to me. I got talked into the JV6 swap, found a decent price on the engine. The conversion company didn't have an answer for the majority of the questions I asked, like plumbing, fuel lines, etc., so I sold that engine and pondered more.

Understandable. For me the Miata is more usable than a FFR Cobra on a daily basis (trust me, I'd rather have the Cobra and probably will some day). Cleveland weather is questionable and rain pops up unexpectedly all the time, so a usable top is pretty necessary. I actually went and toured Factory Five a few months ago, great company and I love all that they do. Planning on turning my STI in to a 818 after the Miata is done.

Back to cost, I found a complete engine out of a 88 Lincoln Mark VIII (5.0 HO, same as mustang) with 80,000ish miles for $300. I did put a little in to it with heads/cam/intake, but could have left it alone other than cleaning it up a bit (I re-ringed it and replaced the crank with a re-ground one and new bearings to be safe, but the cylinder walls were mint so re-used stock pistons). Martin's kit is not cheap, but it is very complete and the most straight-forward way to go.

Whatever way you choose, do what you want and have fun with it.

Yes sir, I agree with you on daily driving an FFR Cobra, but I don't DD my Miata. I think I've driven it to work twice since April, LOL! Huntsville doesn't usually get rain, but in the Summer, it's 90-100+ and A/C is sought after. I've kept the top down on all of our rides from April to October, except one, August. I think everyone in our group of almost 20 Miata's put the top up that afternoon! I actually looked at the 818 kit before I bought the Miata, but the damn Subaru's needed, were extremely overpriced down here!

As for an engine, I was going to grab an Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0, until I read that Martin's headers were confirmed not to fit the heads... My mind is constantly changing on this swap and has been since I drove it home the first day! I'm fine with a 300hp 2,000lb car :) I would be fine with 200hp, it just needs more torque! The Ecotec is by far, the most affordable 200hp/200ft lbs 4cyl swap I've found. The 5.0 is the most affordable V8 swap I've found. I'm still looking at diff's, there's a very affordable open 3.27 7.5" on ebay. I've wondered if buying a used T-5 is best or a new one for about $1500? My truck is a stick and nobody in Huntsville rebuilds manuals anymore... Found that out last year, when it was making a weird noise... I'll look for some Mark VIII's around here, as Fox Body's are scarce around here. Been debating on piecing an engine together too, like intake from an Explorer, block from something with a 5.0 in it, maybe do like you did and order new heads? And another thing is, I love doing home improvements. Debating on slowly finding some parts throughout 2018 and attempting to finish all our home stuff too.

And lastly, I would be super upset if I started this V8 build and halfway through it, got disgusted and sold the car half-assed, for nothing! I've got it looking like it's a badass now, just need to make it one, LOL!

I had a worn T5 laying around and rebuilt myself. Not too hard, there is a guy that has a rebuild video and you can find info online about it. Pretty straightforward process. I have an Explorer intake (same as Cobra intake, much less money) with my Trick Flow heads, Trick Flow stg 2 cam, roller rockers, etc.

I've been working on the swap 3 years, can't wait to drive it!

OK, then I'll look for a used T-5. If I cannot find the correct World Class with the 2.95:1 first gear, can be changed affordably? What did all of your TF parts cost? Yea, I noticed you'd been working on it for a few years, that's one that that made me think Ecotec again....