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NB - 83 Mustang drivetrain
Hi folks,
It looks like I have posted enough on the Introductions page to start a build thread. I bought a 2002 LS at auction in late October, after roaming this site for close to two years, and scheming. I've owned a 1983 Mustang GL since college (drove it a few times in high school). Over the years I've replaced about everything and after a season of autocross have decided it will not take me where I want to go - driving to and from autocross and open track / HPDE events and having a great time. So, best of both worlds - the handling, brakes, light weight, top-down general fun of a Miata with the best part of my Mustang - the '88-based 306 (carbureted; 275whp, 300 ft/lbs) with a T5. This will start slow since the NB runs (203k miles). I plan to do some autocrossing and perhaps an HPDE event this summer, and then get to work on the driveline transformation next winter. By then I will have an insulated garage. :-) As noted on my intro page, I lucked upon a winner - lots of aftermarket parts, including Eibach springs, Koni shocks, and a Koyo radiator. I've bought Hawk HPS pads to go in all around, I'm changing the fog lights to brake ducts with LED DRL surround, and I am adding some bracing - stitch welding around the door sills, 1" square along the bottom pinch weld. I also plan a rollbar install (still deciding BBFW or custom local) with eventual door bars, an install of my Momo racing seat from the Mustang, harnesses, 2" tube rather than subframe braces, and I may need to drop the floorpan. I'm still sorting out how I fit with a helmet. I'mm definitely staying with the soft top - my Mustang is a T-Top and I love the open-air approach. Lots more to come, slowly. I have learned so much from this forum already and look forward to the give and take over the next few years. |
Sounds like a good plan.
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always look forward to new build ideas
awesome for jumping in, I am hoping to finally get back to my build after a 14 month delay, started a new business last year and just now starting to get the time to think about returning to my project. Remember to have fun and post pics and ask questions. This community is excellent and offers some great advise..
Movieboy4fun |
Agreed on all instances!
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I was working on a few things over the winter. It is now getting warm enough that it is comfortable to spend time in my NE Ohio garage. I've pulled all of the interior but the dash, and did some seam welding around the doors (fusing the various layers together). I'm also removing the rusted-out fog lights and installing front brake cooling ducts in their place. I had purchased stock-sized Centric rotors and close-out Hawk HPS+ pads from Tire Rack. When I dug in to install them, I found that all four calipers were in various stages of complete failure / deterioration. So, I picked up some Powerstop rebuilds from Summit. I should be able to trust the brakes now (flushed all of the oil fluid out as well)! Last item was to weld 1X1 square against the sill seam, to provide a reliable jacking point, and to eventually tie into a reinforced subframe rail under the seat.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...05e1bb4b65.jpg Cooling duct-inside. 3" at opening, 2.5" at spindle https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...f487698e90.jpg Seam welding https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...6c1bb3838e.jpg Completely shot! https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...2c0b6873fc.jpg Yep, the rear brake pad actually flaked off the backing plate. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...dbe1042567.jpg Rusty old front caliper https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7c5ae9d289.jpg New front brakes https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...59add8ca3a.jpg New brakes! |
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I've been reading and researching, and enjoying the heck out of my Miata. I've done a lot to it over the past year, and amazingly, it is still running strong with the stock engine at 205k. My plans have changed - going to sell off the Mustang in the spring as a complete car, then get a salvage '95 Mustang 5.0L. I understand that the accessories leave more room in the front, and the transmission comes closer to fitting in the stock shifter location. I bought a rear subframe so I can start working on the diff mount. My plan is to do as much as I can before I start taking the driveline out, because there is obviously no driving until the new driveline is complete. :-)
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https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...80b93298db.jpg
Hard Dog Roll Bar A Hard Dog hard top, single diagonal went in. Seemed to be the best compromise of far enough back and as tall as possible. Still ended up being quite a challenge fitting me under it. :-) |
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...0dccae2616.jpg
New radio https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...e078806053.jpg New switch panel https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...bf7c2638df.jpg Subwoofer Installed a new head unit and speakers, with separate amp. Also built a subwoofer box with a separate amp. Not enough room for a subwoofer in this car! Since I had a single-DIN unit, I made a switch panel underneith and installed a Volt gauge in a blower vent for good measure. Not essential to a V8 installation, but I needed my tunes! Working with the factory Bose wiring was difficult - I read a LOT of posts getting this done. |
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...c5f255ff49.jpg
AutoX ASCC https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...32bb977c49.jpg AutoX NORA https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...046eb93d9d.jpg Nelson Ledges It was a very active summer - several events with the NE Ohio SCCA chapter and the Akron Sports Car Club / NORA. Got to enjoy sharing the car with my son. :-) Also did an SCCA "Track Night" event at Nelson Ledges. That's where it became obvious that the stock driver's seat had to go - I was way too tall for the rollbar, and sliding all over that leather seat. This car is so much fun to drive!!! |
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...63c90e06d9.jpg
Old and new The old and the new, out for a wash. My electric daily driver is in the background. An eclectic collection, for sure! |
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...0846b25910.jpg
Lowered floor https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...a87aba4028.jpg Trimmed seat https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...fc4acc0581.jpg Seat and harness https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...a5a3fd1878.jpg Harness Bar1 https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...bf5eebaaec.jpg Harness Bar2 I pulled the Momo racing seat out of the Mustang and had seen pictures where it would fit in a Miata. It took several attempts that became increasingly difficult, but I ended up cutting the floor pan on three sides, bending it down, and bending up and welding in sheetmetal, with reinforcements below. It was the only way to get me under the rollbar. I needed to retain a slider, since I share driving duties with my son, so bolting it directly to the floor was not an option. Installed a racing harness, too. I intended to keep the seatbelt operational, but the seat interferes with the belt. So, I clip in every time I drive now. Part of the fun. :-) Not much room for a crossbar for the shoulder straps with the subwoofer, so I got creative. The racing seat / harness make a world of difference! Firmly secure; no more bracing with my legs around turns. Or holding onto the steering wheel for dear life. :-) |
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...90c68c0d36.jpg
Halo DRLs https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...abdf014344.jpg Pitt Race Halo LED DRLs so I am a bit more visible. People miss this car completely in the mirrors sometimes. My last event of the year - SCCA Track Night at Pitt Race. Ended up boiling the brake fluid in the third 20-minute session. I bought some Motul the next day and bled the system. So much for "DOT 4" brake fluid. Surprisingly it was the rear pads that got so hot. Looks like I need to duct some air to the rear rotors. I'm currently cutting the hood - R-Theory hood vents and Aerocatch latches, as well as Flyin' Miata hood struts. All necessary for the eventual V8. :-) I'll post some pictures when I finish the hood. |
The V8 conversion has taken a turn for the better. I now own an extra rear Miata subframe and a complete rear subframe from a 1997 Thunderbird (V8, so its an 8.8 rear). I'm going to start working on DIY differential mounts soon!
Per this video, are there drawings for the DIY mounts on this site somewhere? I've done a lot of searching, but nothing.... I've visited this page about a dozen times.... https://miatav8.blogspot.com/2014/01...gftS89EvGEH8No I'm a but nervous about making sure the 8.8 is aligned properly to the Miata subframe, so any measurements I can find are a plus. I will also be taking measurements off the stock diff and axles, since they are still in the car. Thanks! |
6 Attachment(s)
I've got some nice PDF's from another forum member that I will try to post here or on the blog. Also a pic from Facebook showing what might happen if the gussets shown on the blog are omitted. I probably need to document the gussets as well. They really need to extend over to the curved part of the subframe as far as practical I think the lack of gussets and the possibility that the urethane bushings were not properly modified to fit the thickness of the angles contributed to this situation.
Mike https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...e91693d90f.jpg |
That is a pretty significant frame split. Thank you for the advice. And for posting the drawings! Very, very helpful!
Bryan |
I neglected to include that the Facebook post mentioned that there had been wheel hop issues previously. Wheel hop is like taking a jackhammer to rear suspension parts.
Mike |
Thanks, Mike.
My '83 Mustang used to have wheel hop like crazy until I built a torque arm / Watts link rear end for it. So I know what to watch for. :-) I think I'm going to full poly bushings in the suspension, as well as the diff mount to try to discourage wheel hop. That and I won't have the crazy torque some on this board have. Bryan |
It's been a busy winter. I found some great Black Friday sales and made some upgrades that will help with autocross now, and will be even better when I go to a V8. I'll post a few pictures this weekend.
In the meantime, I have a couple of questions: Per power steering, it looks like it is okay to use a Ford power steering pump, as long as you can adapt the fittings to the Mazda power steering lines, correct? I have also seen a LS build thread where they used a pulley from a Dodge minivan on the Mazda pump. If I can find a pulley with the correct diameter and width, is this a good option as well (knowing I will need to build a custom mount for the pump)? Either way, I would like to use one serpentine belt for all accessories (I won't have AC). In looking at lots of build threads, I'd really like to go with mid to long tube headers if possible. I have read that moving the engine an inch to the passenger side helps. If I go with the V8R tubular subframe, does this free up a lot of room for LT headers? Are there still issues with the frame rails? It sounds like steering shaft clearance is the major defining factor? I'd like to go with a non-custom Tri-Y if I can. Thanks! Bman |
I started with Aerocatch latches (so I could remove hood latch) and R-Theory hood vents. I went with the hood vents that seemed to have the best low-pressure / extraction location. I found that following the hood reinforcement and drilling holes along the perimeter from below helped a lot with aligning the template and then cutting from above.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...fb4e2d262a.jpg Aerocatch latches https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...bfe7e1182a.jpg R-Theory hood vents drilled outline from below https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7409f7cf15.jpg Trace R-Theory template from above https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...062201e11d.jpg R-Theory hood vents complete Astute picture viewers will also notice the Flyin' Miata hood struts that allowed removal of the hood prop rod. Making room for eventual radiator and air intake. :-) |
Next up were brake air ducts for the fronts. They are 2.5" and the "half moons" are to direct air toward the center of the rotor. I'll hook these up to the previously installed front bezels on track days.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...816cb99f43.jpg Front brake air duct https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...7cbf61eb96.jpg Front brake air duct air deflector |
Next, the old, rusty coilovers came off (Racing Beat springs on Koni Yellow adjustables).
On went Fortune Auto 500 coilovers, with heavier springs (10kg/mm front, 7kg/mm rear). I went this direction after reading a number of reviews, and studying V8 spring rates. I am THRILLED with these coilovers. The ride is actually better than the "softer" springs, and combined with new sway bars the handling is amazing. I ran an autocross with my son a couple of weeks ago and loved the responsiveness. Whiteline front sway bar set on soft; 5X rear sway bar sent on medium. I’ve now set the ride height – 12.5” front and 12.75” rear, center of wheel to lip of fender. This was about 1/2" front and rear higher than it was (it was too low). Nice that I can adjust ride height now! I'll readjust when new driveline is in. I had it re-aligned to the settings I inherited with the car, since it seemed very balanced that way, -1 degree camber front, -2 degrees rear. I'll likely take some rear camber out when I get the V8 in as I'll need the full contact patch for the torque. :-) https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...ca4703c150.jpg Old coilover https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...0b94653e62.jpg Fortune Auto 500 fronts, 10kg/mm, Whiteline sway bar, FM adjustable end links https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...d1b92b3139.jpg Fortune Auto 500 rears, 7kg/mm, 5X sway bar, FM adjustable end links |
After viewing video of what happens to Miata front sway bar mounts with a larger bar, I fabbed up my own braces with longer bolts and 1X1" square tube.
I also got a set of 5X tow hooks. The only color they had at the time was green, but fortunately Eastwood chassis paint is available in silver. I'm using quite a bit of that. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...a9dec9258c.jpg Front sway bar brace https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...35e89aecf3.jpg 5X front tow hook, painted https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...3c593a2973.jpg 5X rear tow hook, painted and installed |
I had a hard enough time staying in the passenger seat during autocross runs with the old suspension; typically holding onto the seat with both hands for dear life. I didn't want a single-piece race seat for the passenger side, as I wanted to keep it seatbelt and wife-friendly. I bought a Planted braket (very well made) but found it put the seat too high, so I fabbed a new bracket out of Home Depot C-channel. I thought the channel would be stronger than flats. I added an anti-submarine mount and cut a hole in my brand-new OMP Style sport seat (I used a great seatbelt bezel from TRE Performance). I got a Crow harness to match the driver's side, and already had the harness bar to tie into. Since it's the passenger side, I didn't have to mess with an adjustable slider. I cut out the rear seat mounts and bolted it to the floor in the rear (with large backing plates). I used the factory mount in the front.
The seat is very comfortable; I bolted the seatbelt receiver to the trans tunnel (also with a backing plate) and find that it is very comfortable for ice cream runs. And with the harness, the passenger no longer needs to brace on autocross runs!! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...8034ff4c6f.jpg Fabricated passenger seat mount https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...982a75ad5b.jpg Passenger seat mount with anti-sub belt mount https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...03321a7b13.jpg OMP Style and Crow harness I read a post somewhere about using surgical tube to tie up the anti-sub belts. I did this on both sides and it is GREAT for keeping the belt out of the way when using the seatbelt, and for finding the belt when jumping back and forth in a 2-driver autocross car. No more anti-sub belt falling through the seat! |
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Thunderbird rear end with 8.8 https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.v8m...45d0a1af59.jpg 1992 Tbird 5.0L Of greater relevance to this forum than my above improvements, I found a complete T-bird rear subframe at a local salvage yard with an 8.8 3.27 limited slip in it. That diff has been removed from the subframe and is on my workbench, and I am acquiring parts to rebuild it. Since I happened upon a limited slip, I'm going to rebuild the clutch packs and see how it lasts. Separately, I found a nearly-complete 1992 Thunderbird 5.0L nearly complete in another local salvage yard. It has 165k miles and is complete except the alternator / AC bracket. I'll start tearing it down soon to see what I have; at the very least a core. Between these and an extra rear subframe to start fabbing up a diff mount, I am now committed to the V8 Miata project. My plan is to rebuild / fab as much as possible before I remove the driveline from the Miata, so I have as little "down time" as possible. I'll be in withdrawal when I can't drive this thing!! |
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