Mirage775

I can find an Explorer 5.0 a lot easier and a lot more affordable near me easier than I can find a Fox body 5.0. I've talked to Martin a couple of times and he said, yes, the engine will fit, but his headers won't.... Can I use a different pair of headers to make this work for me? I noticed there's some, 5.0 Hedman Hedders, in the for sale section here. Wondering if they'll fit the GT-40 heads? I also like the idea of the headers not going into the wheel well area. Can anyone help me out? Thanks, Jason

MX-Brad

tbone heller

What accessory drive system are you going to use? Explorer, Fox Body, SN95? Those little items will eat a budget up fast. See what these guys have: MPS Auto Salvage - your best resource for Ford Mustang Parts New and Used Ford Mustang parts . Remember that you are also going to need an engine harness. Martin has easy detailed instructions on how to modify a Fox harness. Maybe you might want to look for a complete 5.0 equipped vehicle.

Mirage775

Brad, I hate to know I'd have to buy an engine, then buy iron Mustang heads for it too... Why would I not want my mid-pipes higher than the pan? I would replace rings, bearings and probably put a mild cam in it, then it'll probably need new heads and everything... The more I think I want a V8 Miata, even after I've done countless budget write up, I probably need to just not go through with it, even though the wife has given me permission...

T-Bone, I hear ya! I thought about doing it all with a new long block and a new t5, but the ones I was looking at were almost $4500/pr...., then, harness, ECM, bellhousing, etc, etc, etc... I thought about using SN95 accessories. And I still would need Martin's kit and find an 8.8, as they're getting more and more scarce it seems... The problem with finding a local running and driving Mustang 5.0 around here, is that they're complete and not running or something's blown up or they want way too much for what it is.... My wife and I bring home a decent yearly income and we have no kids at all, but everytime I think about it, it just depresses me, knowing how much it costs to do this swap...

Mirage775

I also have price a Silverado 5.3 conversion and an LFX conversion and still cannot figure out why the LFX is as much as the LSX swap??? Maybe I just need to buy a different car...

BGordon

So what is your target budget?
Knowing a general price range is useful.

Mirage775

Don't currently have a budget. I was going to buy stuff as extra money came around, as I'm afraid if I save it all up, it will likely go into a house addition or a another car down payment or something... I've added up a few 5.0 budgets and they're all around $10k for everything. I can do everything, but the exhaust. It's just wishful thinking/daydreaming, as I'll probably never actually go through with this, but I like to see options. When I was 20 years old, I was single and had a lot more money than I do now, and I said I'm gonna build a Factory 5 Cobra. 23 year later, it still hasn't happened...

MX-Brad

Mirage775

I've never seen anyone around here sell a 5.0 for less than $5-700 and even then, it needed a lot of work and it's usually just a bare block, no ECM, harness, etc.

I avoid speed-bumps, lol.

There's a misunderstanding here, I was only going to get new heads after you suggested swapping the Explorer heads.

There's a local fella that has a 94-95 Cobra engine, trans, harness and ECM for sale that runs, but might as well need rebuilding since it's out of the car, but it's not anywhere near $300-400... Martin told me a 94-95 5.0 wouldn't work with his kit though?

I wish a newer 4.6 would work with his kit, as the old 5.0's are hard to find, at least for me.

I appreciate everything, but I have this feeling of wanting to do this swap and I know completely that I can finish all of it, with the exception of welding the diff plates in, (I can weld, just don't trust my welds on something that crucial!), but the amount it requires, money, not time, I have plenty of time I just do feasibly see this as something I'm going to do, as much as I'd like to have it....

topdownfun

[QUOTE=Mirage775;24873].

There's a local fella that has a 94-95 Cobra engine, trans, harness and ECM for sale that runs, but might as well need rebuilding since it's out of the car, but it's not anywhere near $300-400... Martin told me a 94-95 5.0 wouldn't work with his kit though?

QUOTE]

Lol,I've had my 95 w '95 SN95 engine, using Martin's kit, on the road for 9 years as of last weekend. Bone stock engine fits much better than Fox Body thanks to shorter front accessories and lower intake. Room for puller fans instead of pushers on the radiator, and no need to cut hood webbing. If using Ford ac compressor, need to notch frame rail to use stock Ford accessories. Slightly more complex than Martin's instructions--need to put bung on top of passenger header for EGR, wiring a little different. Use Fox body bellhousing instead of SN95 so can use an off-the-shelf T5z.

I don't race mine, just very clean build for daily driver on nice days and car shows. Most common comment--"looks factory".

BGordon

My opinion is that if you really want to do the swap you can do a budget V8 swap for significantly less than 10k as long as you are not chasing a 400hp build and are good with used pieces that will take some cleaning and tweaking and are willing to use as much as possible from the Miata.
Being from a GM perspective all my focus is on using pieces that work with the LS based engines but Ford specific pieces follow the same concept with different part numbers and seem to cost about the same for the same power level.
I would personally utilize LS based stuff as it is a more modern design and fits really well in a Miata when it is all said and done.

First, you have to look at the areas you could potentially shave cost but still have a reasonable finished car.
Utilize the Miata rear differential and axles (300 HP and below and stay away from the wider & stickier tire choices).
Utilize the Miata cooling system and fans but expect to work thru some routing problems and might (or might not) have overheating issues after the build is up and running.
Modify the Miata front subframe for engine fit.
Fabricate a transmission cross member rather than buying one.
Keep the factory Miata brakes & sway bars & coil over suspension and tires.
Utilize the Miata battery unless it actually proves to be inadequate at the completion of the build.

Second, look at areas that absolutely have to be switched out but look for the most budget friendly solution.
Go with an automatic transmission rather than a manual. This is a huge money saver but brings on secondary fitment issues due to the tight Miata transmission tunnel.
For a GM build, used Pontiac G8 factory exhaust manifolds are the least expensive way to get there because a used pair seem to go for around $100 on Ebay and seem to work with a modified Miata front subframe.
Best would be to buy an entire wrecked 1998 to 2002 TransAm or Z28 so you can scavenge all of the little parts that make a swap happen without the need to buy a bunch of new items that nickel and dime you to death.
I almost went that route but my insistence for a 6 speed build kept the wrecked car price over the amount I was willing to pay and ballooned my budget by several thousand dollars.

Third, read over this fabricator build thread to make sure your skills and tools are actually up to the level needed to do the swap.
https://www.v8miata.net/general-moto...d-thread-2893/
Or this one to check into for specifically using a Z28 donor with everything possible being scavenged.
https://www.v8miata.net/general-moto...onversion-793/

I remember from another thread that you car is nice and clean with a fresh paint job so you seem to have a good base to work from.
Back when I was looking two years ago there were several drivetrain donor cars available for around $3000 with an automatic, which makes me feel confident that you can get a clean Miata swapped and running for around $6000.
Get it running and drive it for a while then decide if you want to continue the modifications by upgrading the rear differential and axles and whatever seems to be necessary to get it to your desired level or just use it as swapped knowing there are a bunch of potential upgrades to do at any time in the next 20 years.

Mirage775

Thanks Mr. Gordon!

I've been reading this and those 2 threads for the last 2 days, before I replied back. I'm not a die-hard Ford or Chevy man, I just thought about the Ford swap costing a lot less than an LSX.

First:
I never thought about using the stock diff with a 5.0 swap, but it make sense, as I've seen turbo 1.8's pushing over 300 on stock diff!
I would be weary of using the stock cooling system with a V8...
I would pay Martin for a new K-member.
I have already changed the stock brakes, sway bars, new struts and drop springs.
Unsure about the battery too, as I would think it would need to have more CCA's?

Second:
I would never dream of putting an auto trans in something like this!
Unsure what options I'd have for headers, for a Ford block?
I did a few Craigslist searches for Z28's and Trans Am's and it's like the Mustang stuff, completely overpriced for what it is! I found a 97 Z28 for $12k!!! Nothing special had been done to it...

Third:
I read over the first link very well. I'm not a fabricator, so I doubt that'll help me...
I've read the 2nd link in the past.


Yep, I posted a pic of my car around December '17, but I've gotten more done to it since then! Got everything painted, some super nice gauges, bought some Advanti Storm S1 wheels (not pictured) and drop springs (not installed yet), pic shown in on the Tail of the Dragon a few weeks ago! First time I've ever been there! .

Within the last few months, I actually thought about an LS swap, so much thought into it, that I watched Turbo Tom's Thunderbolt Series 3 times! Tom's car is amazing and I'll never have anything like that, in my life, ever. I even started watching Taylor Ray's 5.3 build, but I don't like his carelessness. I do, however, like that he went with a Silverado 5.3, (as I was thinking about using the same engine), the fact that he used a 350z trans! I really don't want to have to modify my trans tunnel to accept a T-56 trans... I like how the Getrag diff looks like it's easier to mount than a T-bird 7.5 or 8.8?

I can find the GM parts a lot easier locally, than finding the Ford parts. Like Taylor, I'd would like a nice cam in the LS, to give it a sweet lope! V8R's subframe, trans mount and frame rails are $1950 and Martin's LS subframe, trans mount and frame rails are $1975. I like the V8R's tubular look, over Martin's modified stock subframe. The more this thing keeps adding up in my head, the more depressed I get thinking about it. I've thought about an LFX swap and an LE5 Ecotec swap as well...

BGordon

It is really great to see that you are carefully thinking things thru rather than just jumping in and hoping for the best.
That shows your level of concern to do it right (if you actually go forward with doing a swap at all).
Your statement about Taylor Ray's build being sketchy is spot on.
So much of his video content has me just shaking my head but (on the other hand) it is an outstanding contrast to Turbo Tom and his level of detail and care.
One video to show the ideal way to do the swap and the other shows how to do it as sketchy as possible.
Speaking of Taylor Ray's install, you are aware that the modified Miata front subframe is the reason for not needing to remove the dash and cut the transmission tunnel, right? That method places the engine further forward to gain the clearance even if using the T56.

If only the Honda V6 swap was a cleaner install you could have an affordable and workable path.
I almost went there with a cheap beater V6 Miata build before deciding to do a higher quality V8 build.
The big red flag for me on the V6 Honda swap is using the Miata transmission and the odd style of motor support and hood clearance problems.
All three of those items just appear sketchy to the engineering side of my brain.

The LFX swap needs a good detailed build thread to convince me it is as plug-n-play as claimed.
Those newer engines just have way too much electronics that mesh together for me to be comfortable unless somebody lays it out step by step.

Just keep contemplating and planning so that if the time comes you will have a clear plan.

BGordon

Had a thought that you might consider doing your build from a different direction.

How about considering this?
Take a look at the parts you would want to switch out no matter what sort of swap you decide to go with and start with those items as stand alone projects.
To do it right and careful you should probably switch out the rear end to a stronger unit even if you do a 250 HP swap (or turbocharge the present 4 cylinder).
Also, the chassis bracing is just as important to keep the car rigid and tight handling.
Minimum down time and keep the car driving for as much time as possible with the ability to stop at any point without an excessive cash outlay and still have a usable car.

The Getrag differential is good due to better exhaust clearance and it will stand up to 450+ HP.
Good enough for Flyin Miata swaps and good enough for Turbo Top so it comes highly recommended as long as you are not trying to do a drag racer build with slicks and 600 HP.
No idea why more of the Ford builds don't use it.
The actual kit you can purchase is basically two brackets and high dollar axles.
You would also need to buy a differential.
I initially bought a used one for $250 but ended up buying a brand new unit for $1300 as the used one had way too much slop and the limited slip clutches were worn out.
As a stand alone project you could do it in a day or two in the drive way with just about 12" of welding required on the front mounting bracket.
Only additional worry is the driveshaft and getting it cut and adapted to fit the differential.
The torque arm goes away completely but I don't remember off the top of my head if it would require an additional support for the rear of the transmission or not.
As a project it won't matter which direction you go from there since the drive shaft is the only component that would need to change out in the future.

The other thing that you could legitimately do would be to add the two supports that add structure underneath the car.
Buy the V8 swap bracing and bolt it in so that the car is ready in that respect.
You would have to move the fuel line & battery cable & brake lines that sit up against the existing chassis support since they lay right against the existing subframe.
Pretty simple project as long as you are careful to support the car in an even manner so you don't twist the subframe.

These two projects would take care of everything behind the firewall if you do eventually do a swap and would also improve the car even with the factory 4 cylinder still in the car.

MX-Brad

If I wanted to do another Ford build, and not spend all my money at once, and have the car off the road for as short a time as possible, I would have a machine shop go over my bare block, put it on a stand and spend whatever time and money it takes to build it the way I want.
At the same time, I'd be buying a spare rear subframe...they go for about $100. Buy all the parts I need for the rearend swap and assemble the entire rearend ready to on in one piece.
Source a rebuilt or new T5.
Have all the parts ready from Martin (tranny mount, rad, headers etc).
Basically have my pile of parts ready to go. Once you start digging into the car, you could have the swap done in less than a month.
I sort of did it this way. Rebuilt the engine over the summer, while buying all my swap parts, tore into the car in Nov/2014 and had a running swap by April/2015. 5 months of weekends and a few nights a week. Plus Christmas/New Years was in there and a death in the family to boot.
I won't mention how long it took to get exhaust done- you will have better luck on that than I did.
I did no extra frame bracing- I really don't think it's needed.
Just another approach to consider.

AnthonyS

Wurf

My first post here so hello all.
Jason I have owned and modified a couple Fox Body mustangs and built a Factory Five Roadster back in 2005. I built it first with an EFI 302 with GT40P heads ( Explorer ) using a Trick Flow street intake, converted that to carburetor then sold that motor and replaced it with a built a 408 Windsor Stroker making 480hp. Basically the car scared the hell out of me, my wife didn't like riding in it, I had kids, then I sold it.
So that was 11 years ago and now I am thinking of building a V8 Miata but with an LS motor.
I can tell you in my opinion the Exploder 302 with GT40P heads are just fine and if I recall correctly the headers for the factory mustang heads E7TE bolt right up to them without a problem. The exhaust ports in the GT40P flow a bit better than E7TE and have these strange looking bumps inside for EGR but factory mustang shorties should bolt right up. GT40P are a more modern cylinder head. Flow better on the intake side too. Anyway, if the motor is under 100K miles and it ran well, has good, even compression, I would just clean it and replace the gaskets on the valve covers, new plugs in it, tune up, etc and go. They do run well for a long time and show little wear if properly maintained. Not a big deal to remove the heads though and check for a ridge in the cylinders if you aren't sure. Bolt them back down with ARP bolts and new Felpro gaskets. A quality aftermarket intake with better balanced intake runners will add some power but I would not bother with the cam or much anything else unless you also upgrade the heads which makes a huge difference. I would plan to run the motor stock and some day if/when you want more power, replace the entire top end and the cam as a package.

AnthonyS

I'm not 100% certain but I think the Explorer 5.0 cam is pretty bad. Consider swapping to a factory 5.0 Mustang cam for a cheap easy power upgrade. You can probably research this quickly on the big mustang boards. Other than that, I wouldn't spend money on the engine until you do the heads either.

Wurf

Yes well...at least really mild anyway. However I'd be concerned swapping it for something like an E303 without replacing / upgrading the factory springs. Again not a big deal to do, or have done by a shop.
I find it interesting it's become difficult to find 5.0 roller motors at yards considering how plentiful they were at one time. All the late 90's F150, Explorer, and Mustangs from that era must have gone to the crusher by now I guess.