Im considering a Ford 5.0 swap...
 

What all would i need to do a 5.0 swap? im thinking about either buying a brand new 5.0 engine from fordracing and a new t5 trans from late model restoration, or sourcing a 5.0 engine and trans from a 94 or 95 cobra mustang. im also interested in a 5.0 stroker if i am able to source a kit...

but other than the monster miata kit, and obviously the engine and transmission with an ecu and wiring harness, what else is needed to get the car running and daily driveable? thanks for any imput!

The best starting point, IMHO, is a used Explorer 5.0 from 1996 or 97. The Explorer came with the GT-40 heads and intake that many Mustang guys are swapping on now over at the Mustang Corral. Since these parts were used on the '93 Mustang cobra you can basically make that engine out of it by just adding a Mustang cam and 1.72 rockers.

A yard Explorer motor gets you:
-Usually pretty good bottom end
-Hi-performance iron GT-40 Heads
-Hi-Performance GT-40 intake
-65mm throttle (mustangs have a 55mm)
-72mm mass air (mustangs have 40mm)
-Design three "slim" 19 pound injectors (Mustangs are design 2)

To this you would need to add:
-a front timing cover off any late '80's early '90 ford 302
-A Mustang cam (1988-1993)
-a new oil pan (most likely) to send to Monster Miata
-a 65mm EGR spacer (Summit-$50)
-a Fox Mustang water pump (should be new anyhow)
-a Fox Mustang Alternator bracket ($30 -$50 on eBay)
-a 1996 or so V-6 Mustang Alternator (G3 type, higher output, easier to wire in)
-a 1996 or so V-6 Mustang Starter (PM type, easier to wire in, higher torque, smaller size)
-a Fox Mustang power steering/AC bracket (again, $35 on eBay)
-a Fox Mustang AC rear bracket (again $35 or so on eBay)
-a Fox Mustang AC compressor ($100 or so from advance auto or used)
-a Fox Mustang Distributor ($100 new from Autozone)
-a Fox Mustang bell ($50 on eBay, $200 new)
-a Fox Mustang Flywheel (about $80 from autozone)
-a Fox Clutch kit (should be new anyhow-about $135)
-a Fox 5.0 Mustang T-5 with a shifter (new-$1500, used $100 - $800)
-a McCully Racing Motors Aluminum driveshaft ($400)
-a 1996 or so 7.5 inch limited slip 3.27 Thunder bird rear and both half shafts (look for door axle code "E"-should run you under $100)
-a set of Fox Mustang radiator hoses and heater hoses (under $100 for all)
-a main 6-rib belt (I think 56"???) and a 36" 4-rib belt (about $50 for both)
-a 1994 to 2004 Miata or Protege waterpump pulley (to be reamed out and welded to your Ford crank pulley for power steering)
-a set of header gaskets
-a set of collector gaskets (2.5 inch-three bolt)
-a custom exhaust (about $1000 in aluminumized steel, $1500 or so in stainless)
-two o2 sensors (fox body mustang)
-a modified main harness from a Fox Mustang (I can do this for you-includes o2 connections)
-an injection harness from a Fox Mustang
-an a9l Mustang ECU

recommended (for any V8 Miata):
-a suspension upgrade to coil-overs of some type
-at least 15x8 wheels with 225/45-15 tires
-rollbar


hope that helps,
-Jason McCully

Damn. I wasnt expecting such a great reply. Thank you very much!

wow
 

THANK YOU!!!!

I have been searching the net and all miata forums.

This is the most helpful post i have found.

Now, if i can find someone who will make me sure that I'm not going to ruin my auto-x car.

You're welcome. That's why we're here.

For more info and pics of the parts you need check out my 4 Ford V8 Miata builds at :

www.mccullyracingmotors.com

-Jason

Everywhere ive looked around my area i cant find any 5.0 explorer engines. :/. What other 5.0 engine will work well?

How about the wiring loom? ! Jason, how much does your wiring loom simplify this part of the project and do you provide instructions?

Gary

What is your area? Maybe I can point you in the right direction.

-Jason McCully

I provide a almost 40-page instruction manual to help you install my harnesses. All the points you have to tie to anything are labeled on the harness itself. In the book, each point has a picture of exactly where it hooks up in the Miata.

In addition to the modifications I also completely unwrap, clean and inspect the entire harness and fix any problems with it. You would not believe what you can find in a 20 year old wiring harness.

If you have a harness you just send it out to me with a check for the cost of the mods + any extras + shipping back. If you don't have a harness I ask for a core charge and then go searching ebay and my local sources for one to use. I usually ask $150 for a core charge which covers the cost of the harness, shipping it to me and the time it takes to find it.

To answer your question about how much work it knocks off:
If someone had offered the service when I built my first car I would have jumped on it. I took a good two to three weeks to do the wiring in my first build. Now that I've done 4 builds (and over 25 harnesses) I can get one done in a lot less than that.

Let me know when you're ready to start,
-Jason McCully

I might just have to order a explorer 5.0 from ebay or something...

i am in the Marines so i am always moving. haha. right now i am in pensacola, FL for school. but i am originally from Atlanta, GA. i actually saw some 5.0 explorers when i was home for the 4th of july, but i didnt have any money at the time for any. =(

Next time you are in Atlanta, come by & check out my car.

i will have to do that. how far away do you live from lawrenceville?

About 40 miles away. There is a lot of 5.0 stuff to be had in the metro Atlanta area.

5.0 swap general ?s
 

i am also doing the swap and in the process of collecting parts what else do i need for the 7.5 after i find one what needs to be done with it or purchased for it how is the trans mounted and what needs to be purchased to mount it also is the monster miata guys willing to modify the oil pan and cross member without purchasing the whole kit if so any idea how much i have a fab guy just wondering whats my best option this is diy budget build any input or info is greatly appreciated!

Using the whole kit, you can build a Ford conversion for around $10K. Martin usually is willing to sell just parts of his kit although if you're looking to use his subframe, pan and trans mount you should just throw it all in and get his axles, hubs and rear end hanger as well. The kit is not a bad purchase at $4K.

Here's a rough breakdown of a build on the cheap:

Kit: $4K
Not-so-nice donor Miata: $1500
running used mustang engine with accessories: $150 to $300
Used criagslist T-5: $150-$300
T-bird rear and half shafts (you pull): $100
Exhaust work (steel, not stainless): $1000
cut down mustang driveshaft: $50
electronics (ebay): $200

All the above gets you a running Ford V8 Miata with stock brakes, a pretty antiquated suspention, no roll-over saftey and questionable reliability. I've found the best bang for the buck is to get a already modified Miata (turbo, SC, etc) and make some money selling off the parts you don't need. It is also advisable to get a 1.8 donor as opposed to a 1.6 as the engine is worth a lot more. It's also advisable to get a donor with a limited slip diff as that can be sold for quite a bit. If I were on a budget (as I was my first time out) I would start with the big $$$ part, the kit. Once you save the coin for that and sit it in a garage somewhere you HAVE to eventually finish it. Since that purchase is almost half the total cost you'll also have the satisfaction of knowing you're almost half way their. Save the actual domor car purchase for last.

-Jason

-Jason

Thanks Jason, I just purchased an 8.8 IRS and everything needed for the install. I already have a donor car 93 s/c. I'm selling whole drivetrain. Have a fairly new set of AGX shocks with a ground control coil over kit and eibach springs. Will that work with the added weight? I was also considering selling those for a vmaxxx setup but was also unsure if they will work with the new transplant. I have a solid brake setup as well a roll bar and harness... I rolled my previous miata.. and learned my lesson to be short. I plan on keeping the motor fairly mild until I have some time behind the wheel. So, as far as fuel, I have a larger fuel pump for s/c. Will that suffice? Or should I just purchase the fuel system flyin miata uses for their ls's? I have a guy doing the fab work on my cross member and plan on using an aftermarket miata radiator. The car has no p/s or a/c and I dont plan on reinstalling either. One other thing. Wires scare me and I was wondering, what else is involved with your harness aside from plumbing it?

take the engine out of a early 90s lincoln mark 7

what are the benefits of using that motor

That is the 4.6 correct? I'm aware the swap has been done although I've heard about issues. Anyone know more about using the 4.6 opposed to the 5.0? Ford's modular motors are great engines and would rather use one if possible...

The Mark VII had a 5.0HO engine. The mark VIII had a 4.6 32V engine. The 4.6 is very wide . It has been done before, but requires major modifications.

The SOHC design isn't nearly as wide. Certainly would be cool.

The Lincoln 5.0 is exactly the same as the Mustang 5.0 but usually sells for much less and is rarely as abused. To make it fit you would still have to get the Mustang front accessory brackets, a small case G3 alternator (or G1 Fox), and the AC compressor from a Mustang. The Lincoln accessories sit an annoyingly close 1/2 inch too high.

The Lincoln does come equipped with a PM-type starter though..

I still think a late 90's Explorer is a better candidate since you'd still have to get Mustang front accessories but would also have a much lower mile engine with GT-40 heads and intake for the same salvage yard cost. With both you would have to find a Mustang bell, flywheel, clutch, fork, T-5 etc.

-Jason

would i need to install the a/c components if i didnt plan on putting it in. or is it a must

You don't have to use a/c. Many have not. Look at the pictures & check out all of the different set-ups.

Awesome thanx. Oh and will the vortex charger fit without clearance issues

I doubt it. I am sure that some type of modification would have to be preformed. There is not a whole lot of room for the extra crankshaft pulley. Maybe if you used a set-up for a 94-95 Mustang because they have shorter water pumps.

Good to know thanx

Here's a rough breakdown of a build on the cheap:

Kit: $4K
Not-so-nice donor Miata: $1500
running used mustang engine with accessories: $150 to $300
Used criagslist T-5: $150-$300
T-bird rear and half shafts (you pull): $100
Exhaust work (steel, not stainless): $1000
cut down mustang driveshaft: $50
electronics (ebay): $200

All the above gets you a running Ford V8 Miata with stock brakes, a pretty antiquated suspention, no roll-over saftey and questionable reliability. I've found the best bang for the buck is to get a already modified Miata (turbo, SC, etc) and make some money selling off the parts you don't need. It is also advisable to get a 1.8 donor as opposed to a 1.6 as the engine is worth a lot more. It's also advisable to get a donor with a limited slip diff as that can be sold for quite a bit. If I were on a budget (as I was my first time out) I would start with the big $$$ part, the kit. Once you save the coin for that and sit it in a garage somewhere you HAVE to eventually finish it. Since that purchase is almost half the total cost you'll also have the satisfaction of knowing you're almost half way their. Save the actual domor car purchase for last.

-Jason

-Jason[/QUOTE]

So a guy can use the tbird half shafts? Somewhere I was reading that we have to have modified axles.. something about Factory five's cobra kits axles? But If the tbirds/cougars work as is thats awesome!

The kit includes axles. If you don't use the kit, get the axles from Factory Five. I recall they're like $250 per set shipped. Pretty cheap, but they work. You still have to deal with the hubs; if you can get the Miata hubs broached, that's one way. Another is to modify the Tbird hubs to the same dimensions as the Miata. They're actually very close. At that point you can consider a 5-lug conversion. Or not.

Mike

good to know, I think the 5 lug swap would be cool but I'm aiming for total sleeper. Most wouldnt even notice, the wheel choices would be better, ford probe front spindles right?

Ford Probe rear hubs, Miata spindles. With spacer. I used RX7 front hubs. Someone else used the Probe hubs, I forget who. Very similar effort involved, as I recall. Probably more Probes in the junkyards.

Mike

factory five axles
 

do you have a part # for the axle shafts,can not find anything on there website.

Sorry, don't have a part number, all I remember is that they were the ones that had the 18" axle bars and they were approx $125.00 each, with CV joints.

Mike

Checked with a guy who has talked to them recently, there is no part number, ask for the ones that are 29.5" overall including CV's. There is a shorter version for the spline drive hubs that measures 27" overall.

Mike

axle shafts
 

are those axles,for a 7.5 differental

Actually, they may work for a 7.5, but the proven application uses an 8.8.

Mike

axles
 

do you know,if the 7.5 axles,are the same as the 8.8 axles,the 7.5 axles,i have are 28 spline.i want to buy,the factoryfive axles,but i do not know,if they will fit in my 7.5 axle housing.

I have a somewhat similar question regarding the axle splines of the 7.5 and the 8.8: Can the outer CV joints from the 7.5 (which are smaller than 8.8) be used with the 8.8 28 spline axles?

I have always maintained that the two were interchangeable. Tony LaBoy's cardomain site indicates otherwise, but what I don't understand is that for years, Ford solid axle 7.5 vs 8.8 have used the same 28 spline axles interchangeably. Which means the spider gears are 28 spline. Which to me says the CV axle assembly should be interchangeable as well. I know for a fact the outer CV splines that go into the hub are the same, but since I've never actually seen the 7.5 diff, I can't say for certain that the inner CV splines that fit the diff are the same from 7.5 to 8.8, although I believe they are.

I suspect my confusion really lies in the axle BARS. Given that the 7.5 outer CV is smaller, and the axle bar is smaller in diameter, I suspect that the spline on the bar used on the 7.5 is smaller than the bar used on the 8.8. Which is consistent with the photo on Tony's site.

So it appears to me that the Factory Five CV axle assemblies could be used with either the 7.5 or 8.8 diff. But the Factory Five axle asemblies only come with the larger 28 spline CV's and larger axle bars. So the smaller outer CV's can't be used on the Factory Five bars. Which I guess answers a question :)

Isn't the real problem interference between the CV boot and the shock? I thought that was solved with compressed/smaller boots and/or moving the bottom shock mount.

Mike

Mike,

I've seen your site and your work, which is simply outstanding, by the way! However, I was thinking it would be good to keep the geometry of the Miata spindle uprights, so that's why I'm asking the questions. I have not run across a topic of "compressed or smaller boots". I'll have to research that.

Thanks,

Gary

Thanks for the compliment. Wait til you see the tubular subframe :)

Moving the bottom of the shock over a bit doesn't really affect the geometry. It does put the shock in a bit of a "bind" that some might find offensive. It strikes me that the rubber bushings would quickly acquire a "set" that would take any real strain off the shock.

The solution of having the 8.8 axle bar resplined to take the 7.5 outer CV is probably the cheapest way out. You can use the stock axle which is way too long anyway. Actually the cheapest way out is to have the axle bar resplined to take the Miata outer CV. Then you don't have to deal with the hubs. It would be interesting to know the strength difference between the Miata and 7.5 outer CV's.

Mike

Mike, you need to post up pics on your tubular subframe.

Regarding the Miata outer CV vs. the 7.5 CV, if I had a machine shop, I might try the Miata CV. However, since I would have to pay for the modified axles, I would probably stay safe with the 7.5 CV.

Thanks,

Gary

I know this is an old post but what do you do for the radiator? Mazda? Ford? Aftermarket? I'm assuming the much larger motor requires a larger or more efficient cooling system than a factory Miata

gt-40 heads
 

i got lucky,a couple of weeks ago,i found a 96 exployer in the wrecking ward,so i pulled the heads,intake,throttle body,injectors,all for 129.00 dollars,good deal,i been looking for those heads for six months,hard to find,people must know about it,heads or engine,is always gone.

I used the radiator that came with the kit from Monster Miata. It was drop shipped direct from Saldana Racing. It is a very nice piece.

I also run the Monster Miata kit radiator although I moved it forward enough recently that I could mount the kit's fans behind it as opposed to in front of it. The only sacrifices were the hood latch with I replaced with a set of aerocatches, the windshield washer bottle (only an issue with n ABS car) which I replaced with a small Nissan truck one that I mounted in the trunk, and the forward most air bag sensor which I'm pretty sure I could remount somewhere.

That, along with running Evan's waterless coolant, has made the car run very cool even with the AC on full tilt.

-Jason

The wiring harness for a ford 5.0 in a 1990 Mazda Miata
 

Is there anywhere I can get a wiring instructions on the ford 5.0 v8 swap on a 1990 Miata?

Www.mccullyracingmotors.com

I have a link to my install directions live on the site since my last update (last night).

-Jason