We all know big power, this thread is for big brakes!
11-29-2014, 12:07 PM
#28
V8 Miata Fan
If you open up the photo of the bracket I will describe the basic dimensions. Length is 7 3/4 inches. Widest point on left of pic is 2 1/2 inches. Widest point on right side of pic is 1 1/2 inches. In the pic, the top left hole and both right hand holes are tapped to accept bolts thru the caliper and Miata bracket. The bottom left hole in the pic is not tapped and requires a nut and bolt.
If you can enlarge the photo proportionally so it is 7 3/4 inches at the longest point, I believe you will have a decent template.
One other thing. Installation of the bolts is sequence specific. You have to start one of the bolts into the Miata bracket, then one into the caliper. Then swing the caliper up around the disk to get the rest in.
Jim
Last edited by jreid1000; 11-30-2014 at 11:23 AM.
12-04-2014, 01:19 PM
#31
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You have to make adapter brackets to mount the Vette calipers & then transfer drill the Miata 4 bolt pattern into the Vette rotor hubs. If we ever decide on larger than 275 tires will have to convert to 5 bolt & then would not have to drill 4 bolt pattern into Vette rotors.
12-08-2014, 07:07 PM
#33
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12-08-2014, 09:41 PM
#36
V8 Miata Habitué
The Miata is famous for being very sensitive to unsprung weight. I'd like to hear an honest assessment from those who have installed the really big (12"+) rotors, how much did it degrade the ride quality? I know you can tell a significant difference when installing a tire only a couple pounds heavier, and some of those big rotors have got to be heavy.
I know a lot of these high end brake systems are using high quality, very light calipers, which helps.
I know a lot of these high end brake systems are using high quality, very light calipers, which helps.
12-08-2014, 10:04 PM
#37
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
Well this probably won't help one bit but I did greatly increase my unsprung weight so will post it.
I went from 15x9s that weigh 34.8 lbs ea to 17x10s that weigh 49.5 lbs each (tires included). No question I can feel the difference but the biggest difference is the car handles ruff roads so much better. I'm sure it has more to do with tire size but the weight may smooth out the bumps some too. When I first drove the bigger feet I could feel a little more mass in the steering feel but it was so slight and I was looking for it so I can't say it's an issue. I'm sure it made a difference in performance but I can't tell either in an autocross or just tooling around with it. Wouldn't care anyway I like the monster truck look!
I'm looking at 12" Camaro rotors now so if I do that I can probably post something meaningful. 4th gen F body front rotors are 21 lbs to the stock Miatas 10 lbs. I'd love to go 13s just because the stock 10" are so small in the wheels they look completely pathetic!
I went from 15x9s that weigh 34.8 lbs ea to 17x10s that weigh 49.5 lbs each (tires included). No question I can feel the difference but the biggest difference is the car handles ruff roads so much better. I'm sure it has more to do with tire size but the weight may smooth out the bumps some too. When I first drove the bigger feet I could feel a little more mass in the steering feel but it was so slight and I was looking for it so I can't say it's an issue. I'm sure it made a difference in performance but I can't tell either in an autocross or just tooling around with it. Wouldn't care anyway I like the monster truck look!
I'm looking at 12" Camaro rotors now so if I do that I can probably post something meaningful. 4th gen F body front rotors are 21 lbs to the stock Miatas 10 lbs. I'd love to go 13s just because the stock 10" are so small in the wheels they look completely pathetic!
Last edited by charchri4; 12-08-2014 at 10:15 PM.
12-08-2014, 10:16 PM
#38
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The Miata is famous for being very sensitive to unsprung weight. I'd like to hear an honest assessment from those who have installed the really big (12"+) rotors, how much did it degrade the ride quality? I know you can tell a significant difference when installing a tire only a couple pounds heavier, and some of those big rotors have got to be heavy.
I know a lot of these high end brake systems are using high quality, very light calipers, which helps.
I know a lot of these high end brake systems are using high quality, very light calipers, which helps.
I'll take 12" or larger brakes all day long on a road course. Unsprung weight is only one of many suspension criteria.
01-06-2015, 08:38 AM
#39
V8 Miata Participant
I have decided to upgrade my '90 NA to the bigger/better, 2001 - 2005 factory Sport brakes. I tried to find the best parts I could at the best price. In case anyone else is considering this upgrade, I'm attaching images showing part numbers, descriptions, promotional codes, and pricing as of 10/26/14.
I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.
The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.
Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.
I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.
So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.
As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the **** enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.
Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.
Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.
I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.
The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.
Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.
I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.
So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.
As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the **** enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.
Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.
Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.
I'm taking this option! Have you installed them yet? Good to go (stop) so to speak?
I'm wondering though, if we are sending back say 90-93 cores, and they take them as 2001-2005 cores, am I going to get your old (rebuilt) NA stuff???
01-06-2015, 02:33 PM
#41
Administrator
I have decided to upgrade my '90 NA to the bigger/better, 2001 - 2005 factory Sport brakes. I tried to find the best parts I could at the best price. In case anyone else is considering this upgrade, I'm attaching images showing part numbers, descriptions, promotional codes, and pricing as of 10/26/14.
I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.
The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.
Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.
I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.
So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.
As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the **** enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.
Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.
Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.
I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.
The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.
Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.
I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.
So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.
As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the **** enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.
Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.
Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.
-Jason
01-06-2015, 02:40 PM
#42
Administrator
I'm about to do this with my rear 1994 brakes. They have 190K miles on them at this point and need a rebuild. I looked into reman 1994 calipers and found the sport calipers to be within $20. The rotors are the same ($16 or so at RockAuto). The pads are a few bucks more expensive but nothing that breaks the bank.
One note of caution is that it seems the Hawk Black compound pads are not offered in the sport brake size. This bummed me out as I've really become comfortable with that compound all around at the track. The blues seem a little too aggressive and HP+ pads get cooked in a few laps. I'm planning on trying the newer HT-10 pads as they seem to be a newer version of the blacks.
-Jason
01-06-2015, 02:53 PM
#43
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
+1 to that ^^.
HP + in my F bodies did not dissipate heat well either though I liked them a lot for autox. Ebc yellows did a little better on the big track with the big dog.
HP + in my F bodies did not dissipate heat well either though I liked them a lot for autox. Ebc yellows did a little better on the big track with the big dog.
01-06-2015, 08:50 PM
#44
Administrator
It's really quite a bummer as I really felt the Blacks were just right. I originally went with Blues when I grew out of BP10 "Smart" pads and liked how they performed with track tires in the dry but they scared the %^&* out of me when I went out in the wet with RS3's on. They also majorly dust metallic dust which will rust etch itself to your wheels. The blacks are just grippy enough while not being overly dusty. I've never had them fade even after 60+ minute track sessions.
Ironically the brakes as they now are work fine. The only reason I want to swap the sport brakes on the back is that to get the current rears to work as well as they are I had to throw a lot of balance back there to balance out the big fronts. Doing this seems to be overwhelming the 1994 rears to the point where the paint is constantly burned off the pads and calipers and the rotors are changing colors (like blueish). I figure the larger thermal mass of the sport rotors should help dissipate this heat better and the larger swept area of the pads and larger bore piston should let me dial the amount of bias going back to them down a bit. While I have the system open I am planning on also replacing the stock master cylinder/booster with Mazda 929 parts and plumbing out the ABS system since it's been inoperative for years anyhow.
In addition to this little brake upgrade this winter/spring I'm also upgrading the heads and rockers to aluminum (AFR 185's/Scorpion Endurance 1.72's), repairing rocker rust, having a custom differential built (True-Track with 3.08), having my trans completely rebuilt with a custom 5th gear cluster (.86 fifth), redesigning my oil cooler system, installing frog arms, rebuilding my front Wilwoods, replacing all four wheel bearings, replacing the CV's with new and possibly upgrading (again) the suspension (found a used Fat Cat system). I'm hoping the above will give me a car I can reliably flog 3 to 4 times a year at the track for 250 - 300 miles each time and possibly hit 145 mph with at said track days if my ***** will let me.
-Jason
Ironically the brakes as they now are work fine. The only reason I want to swap the sport brakes on the back is that to get the current rears to work as well as they are I had to throw a lot of balance back there to balance out the big fronts. Doing this seems to be overwhelming the 1994 rears to the point where the paint is constantly burned off the pads and calipers and the rotors are changing colors (like blueish). I figure the larger thermal mass of the sport rotors should help dissipate this heat better and the larger swept area of the pads and larger bore piston should let me dial the amount of bias going back to them down a bit. While I have the system open I am planning on also replacing the stock master cylinder/booster with Mazda 929 parts and plumbing out the ABS system since it's been inoperative for years anyhow.
In addition to this little brake upgrade this winter/spring I'm also upgrading the heads and rockers to aluminum (AFR 185's/Scorpion Endurance 1.72's), repairing rocker rust, having a custom differential built (True-Track with 3.08), having my trans completely rebuilt with a custom 5th gear cluster (.86 fifth), redesigning my oil cooler system, installing frog arms, rebuilding my front Wilwoods, replacing all four wheel bearings, replacing the CV's with new and possibly upgrading (again) the suspension (found a used Fat Cat system). I'm hoping the above will give me a car I can reliably flog 3 to 4 times a year at the track for 250 - 300 miles each time and possibly hit 145 mph with at said track days if my ***** will let me.
-Jason
Last edited by MRM331; 01-06-2015 at 08:53 PM. Reason: speeling
01-06-2015, 11:13 PM
#45
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
LOL love that wit of yours! ^ speeling... the red pen is out teacher!
If you don't look down 145 is pretty easy. It's amazing how it creeps up on you too!
If you don't look down 145 is pretty easy. It's amazing how it creeps up on you too!
Last edited by charchri4; 01-06-2015 at 11:14 PM. Reason: testing the time
01-07-2015, 08:27 AM
#46
V8 Miata Fanatic
01-07-2015, 09:19 AM
#47
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
Oh no she still pulls real hard at 135.
I don't have video of it but it will push past 140 at the top end of 4th but no way would I let go of the wheel to shift to 5th. It wouldn't surprise me if 165 was in the car but it sure isn't in the driver!
I don't have video of it but it will push past 140 at the top end of 4th but no way would I let go of the wheel to shift to 5th. It wouldn't surprise me if 165 was in the car but it sure isn't in the driver!
Last edited by charchri4; 01-07-2015 at 09:24 AM.
01-07-2015, 10:30 AM
#48
V8 Miata Fanatic
Hmm...do we have a thread on aerodynamics yet?....
01-07-2015, 10:45 AM
#49
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
Capital idea! There is a couple of really good ones on other forums but nobody running real power that I know of.
I know this for sure. If you buy a wing just because it was 56 bucks and needed a lot of work, and you fix it up and hang it on your car just because you have never rebuilt a wing and you think it looks cool, well it might be a good idea to consider the areo aspect of it. I thought it would be fun just to toss it on for car shows and pay day Fridays but big surprise that damn thing works so well it dented the trunk lid at 100!
I know this for sure. If you buy a wing just because it was 56 bucks and needed a lot of work, and you fix it up and hang it on your car just because you have never rebuilt a wing and you think it looks cool, well it might be a good idea to consider the areo aspect of it. I thought it would be fun just to toss it on for car shows and pay day Fridays but big surprise that damn thing works so well it dented the trunk lid at 100!
Last edited by charchri4; 01-07-2015 at 11:11 AM.
02-27-2015, 09:01 AM
#50
V8 Miata Enthusiast
Got some tax season cash. Finally decided on my plan of action.
My 1992 already has 1994 1.8 upgraded brakes. They faded fast at the track. I'm gonna buy the 949racing front and rear big brake kit. Ill keep my 1994 calipers and upgrade to the larger Corrado front rotors and Miata sport rear rotors and add the DOT 4 fluid, total is $419.91 shipped from 949. Ill also add some Carbotech XP10's to the front and XP8's to the rear.
Sounds like a solid economical plan with zero fabrication.
My 1992 already has 1994 1.8 upgraded brakes. They faded fast at the track. I'm gonna buy the 949racing front and rear big brake kit. Ill keep my 1994 calipers and upgrade to the larger Corrado front rotors and Miata sport rear rotors and add the DOT 4 fluid, total is $419.91 shipped from 949. Ill also add some Carbotech XP10's to the front and XP8's to the rear.
Sounds like a solid economical plan with zero fabrication.
