charchri4

I knew my car treated the use of the center pedal as a suggestion that is mostly ignored but didn’t realize just how bad my brakes really are until I hit the track with V8droptops Mazdaspeed 3. The difference was unbelievable! Nicks' 3 hauls it down incredibly fast and smooth and made my car feel like the flintstone mobile dragging my feet for brakes.

The 3 goes good too with a nice smoky burn out!

So I’m back to looking at brakes again. I say again because I’ve looked at brakes before and there are a lot of great kits out there:
4 Wheel Big Brake Kit - V8 Roadsters
Flyin' Miata : Chassis : Big brake kits
Miata Big Brake Kits
Miata Brakes - Brake Kits and Complete Packages - Mazda Performance Parts

But all these kits have 2 problems. They are terribly expensive and they don’t use parts I could get at any auto parts store. Like if I need brake pads in the Yukon or something… The other thing I don’t like is most of them are only 11” rotors and with 17” wheels there is no reason to limit rotors that small.

With that as a back drop I am on a quest for big cheap brakes. I have probably looked at 500 different brake options and as much as I'd like to redrill some 14+" 4 or 6 pot brakes I have found if it says Corvette, Brembo or Wilwood on it the easy to find parts and cheap idea is lost. So this is what I have so far:

Top of the list is the master cylinder. The stock 96 Miata master is 7/8" bore and the newer sport brakes have a 15/16 pumper. Word on the street says the cheap way out of this is a master from a 96 Explorer. It is a 1 1/16 bore and bolts right up the Miata brake booster. 12 bucks from the you pull it yard or 32 bucks from Rock Auto.

Next up is the rotors. Options here are to redrill or find 4x100s with the right offset for a Miata spindle. Lots of guys go with VW Corrado plates which is great but I’d like to go bigger than 11” so I like the looks of this little gem. That is the rotor from a 2007 Mini Cooper turbo that is 12.4” with the right offset, and at 22 bucks shipped we now have rotors and master for 100 bucks. So far so good.

Rear calipers are a sticking point for lots of folks because they want to keep a full functioning parking brake. Drawing on my deep knowledge of Camaros I just happen to know that 94-97 F bodies use the exact same parking brake set up as the NA Miata does. Stock rear 96 Miata piston area is 1.22", the newer sports are 1.48" and the F body is 1.95" with the pads about the same increase in size. Since F body guys swap them for the 98-02 pots these calipers can be had for the price of shipping and a tip. 30 bucks a pair tops.

That leaves front calipers which for now I don’t have a good solution for. My first pass is to use a 98-02 Camaro caliper because they are light, cheap and huge. The problem is the Mini rotor is 10mm thinner than the Camaro rotor and when the pad wears down it could be an issue. I’m still researching that and brake lines.

So that’s my story. Post up what you have, what you want, what you like and what you don’t like and lets call this a brake thread!

charchri4

For future conclusions if this thread gets as long as I hope it will...

tbone heller

I am using the kit offered by Monster Miata. They seem to work pretty good. I have not driven it since I installed the adjustable proportioning valve.

V8droptop

I am wondering if the -10mm rotor difference is going to be very significant. I'd venture a guess the F-body caliper had enough travel to make up for it. Fluid volume in the master cylinder may have to be checked from time to time as the pads wear, but I've seen enough cars with pads worn down till they are using the pad backing plate as a brake to tell me calipers have extra travel built into them.

If you get ahold of a Mini Rotor, I have 2 F-body calipers we can test the theory with.

My opinion is of course, overkill. Willwood forged superlite 6's would pretty much stop anything, and would be plenty for your car. Which, btw, is a blast to drive.

I had the 3 on BIR today. Super fun, lit those brakes up good again today, and had a lot of fun. My father came with his Challenger, he made huge leaps on the track between the beginning and end. We had 7 25 min sessions today, a lot of track time. Bottom line, the larger brakes are nice for late braking, and help clean up some mistakes as well, and didn't experience any fade.

Sunshine Guy

Not yet installed in the car, but I have Martin's Big Brake Kit. Custom mounting brackets, Wildwood rotors and front calipers, RX-7 rear calipers. I plan to add stainless brake lines and a manual proportioning valve. I rode in Martin's shop car a few years ago and it definitely stopped hard.

I have an RX-7 power brake booster unit with matching master cylinder; I've forgotten the piston size. There was discussion on this potential conversion several years ago on another forum and several people thought, while the booster unit is larger the size of the master cylinder would actually cause an increase in brake effort. Jason is currently planning this conversion; I'm watching with great interest.

The only concern I would have with larger rotors is the increase in unsprung weight. We all know these cars are sensitive to this, and I think adding a couple inches or so in diameter will increase rotor weight by a surprising percentage. The "power-robbing" extra inertia of larger rotors will likely be a non-issue on these cars; there's power to spare on most builds. However, for a street car where the tires and wheels we are using are already substantially heavier than stock, adding more rotor weight into the equation might really depreciate ride quality. However, the 10mm reduction in thickness on the Mini Cooper rotors would surely help mitigate this concern.

charchri4

I'm not worried about the pistons pushing out it would be easy to make a shim to take up some of that. What worries me is where the pads are mounted in the slides. See where the arrows are here?


I loose 5mm per side where the pads clip in the calipers there. So when the pads are about half gone they will be to the point where they could be completly gone in a F body. I think you are right Nick it's just a matter of getting a rotor and testing it.

charchri4

Good point on the weight but the way it is now would be dangerous on a big track. Actually it's not that safe on an autox either!

I could feel the difference between the 15 and 17s I think but part of that was I added about 100 lbs in body art too. No question the 17s weigh a good 8 to 10 lbs more than the 15s and while it rides better on the street no one serious about performance would ever take on that weight. I would imagine the aluminum caliper would not add very much but the over kill steel bracket and rotor will add a good 5 lbs I'm sure.

I know it's kind of lame but she looks pretty wimpy with the tiny brakes in the big wheels too...

.boB

Choosing the right brake kit is tough. There isn't a single one out there that's perfect, IMO.

You can cobble together a variety of stock parts that will fit and look good. But don't expect them to perform as well as something like Wilwoods. The rotors might look similar, but that's about as far as it goes.

The purpose of calipers and rotors is to turn rotational energy into thermal energy. The better it can do that, the better your brakes will be and the longer they will last. Once you have all that heat, you need materials that can withstand it, and a way to get rid of it. Stock rotors just can't handle threshold braking lap after lap. You'll be replacing them 2-3 times a season. That makes the expensive Wilwoods a bit cheaper.

I really like a quality 2 piece rotor. Unfortunately, not many kits use them at all 4 corners. The FM, V8R, and 949 kits use stock rear rotors. For track use, I want more than that.

I like the GWR kit, because it uses a good racing rotor and racing calipers at all 4 corners. I don't like them because the rotors come from Australia, and are not a common stock item. It might take a month to get replacements.

I'll probably use the GWR kit, and then buy a spare pair of rotors for my own shelf stock. Calipers, pads, MC, lines, etc, are all pretty common parts. If you can't find them locally, you can usually get them from Summit Racing in 48 hours.

charchri4

LOL found a great shot from Sunday trying to slow down...

V8droptop

if you want to borrow the fbody fronts before I go, lmk, I can send then your way.

Sunshine Guy

It seems to me that big brake kits make a lot of sense for the more high end/high HP cars, or for anyone who plans to run their car hard on a track. The stock Miata brakes in good condition with the right pads will pretty much lock 'em up on a single, hard stop, so in my mind that makes them decent street brakes. I think what is gained with the BB kits is mostly less fade under constant, hard use.

I plan to install Martin's BB kit on my '94 build with the healthy 347. However, for the lower HP cars just serving as street toys (such as my '90 Miata with a pretty mild Ford 5.0L), it would seem worthwhile to investigate upgrading the stock 1990-1993 brakes with later, bigger/better factory brakes that are basically a bolt-on. I think some of the later "Sport" model in particular were supposed to be significantly better. I've read a bit some about people doing this, but have never found an exact parts list or write-up on how to perform this factory parts swap. If anyone has knowledge of this lower-cost upgrade alternative, I, and probably others, would like to hear about it.

I know Jim is not looking to go this route, so I hope this is not off-topic for this thread. However, it seems logical to consolidate a full range of upgrade options for brakes in one place for people considering all their options.

charchri4

Oh yeah that is a bolt on deal Steve. 02-05 sport brakes add .6" in rotor size and have bigger calipers. It's not a lot of difference but it is cheap and you keep a real parking brake. The only thing you have to do is trim the dust shields for the bigger rotors and I think that is only in back. From there go to Rock auto and for about 400 bucks it's a done deal.

I really don't know what I am going to do yet. I pulled a front wheel off my sons Firebird and did some measuring between the 2 cars. What struck me was the weight difference between the rotors. The F body is 19.8 lbs and the stock Miata one is half that. So maybe the 11 inchers are not so bad after all...

Sunshine Guy

So, new rotors and calipers at each corner. Do you also need 02-05 caliper mounting brackets, and any other parts from the later year car? ( Confession: I haven't worked on brakes much, usually took the lazy way out and had someone else do it).

This sounds like a no-brainer, moderate upgrade when it is time to service the brakes anyway.

MRM331

I found back in the day that upgrading the stock 1990-93 brakes to the later 1994-97 parts to be the minimum acceptable braking for even a street V8 Miata. To do this you need:

Front:
1994 "loaded" (with pads and bracket) or "semi-loaded" (bracket only) calipers
1994 Rotors
1994 Pads

Rear:
1994 Rotors
1994 Pads
1994 Hardware Pack
1994 hangers
(Rear calipers are the same, the hardware pack allows you to mount the larger pads in them)

Since that time the even larger 2002 and up "sport" parts have come down in price to the point where they are only a few buck more than the 1994 parts. If I were to do a 1990-93 donor today I'd go right to the NB parts. The only difference is that you also need the rear caliper as it's larger than the 1990-2001 part.

The best way to get your hands on all this is to look for the best price on the loaded calipers online and then turn in your original parts as "cores". Usually turning in one NA/NB Miata part as a core for another is not a big issue as long as you do not make a stink out of it.

-Jason

Sunshine Guy

Looking at replacement parts for the factory Sport brakes I see some rotors that are drilled, slotted, or both. They don't cost much more, maybe $10 to $20 each.. Anyone have an opinion as to whether they offer any real benefit beyond the bling factor?

charchri4

I like good quality steel blanks myself.

I didn't catch that you were going from pre 93 to sports. For that I don't know about the extra parts needed so better follow Jasons list. I know when I looked at it going from 96 to sports was a straight bolt on deal.

MRM331

Use blanks only. Drilled/Slotted/Dimpled rotors are only one small step removed from "caliper covers" in my mind. They offer no benefit and are actually weaker and less effective than non-drilled rotors. They will only look "cool" to someone who has no idea what's going on.

-Jason

Gunpilot

Been looking around for a kit myself. Someone here locally in Houston is selling this:

"Big" brake setup for a Miata. Has literally less than 100 miles on all parts, except the calipers. The kit includes. . .
-1.8L calipers(4)
-Lines (soft)(4)
-Axxis Ultimate brake pads(4)
-1.8 "sport" 11" rear rotors(2) and VW Corrado front rotors(2)
-Brackets/hardware as seen here . . . Miata M-Tuned Big Rotor Kit
$275 for everything

I already have 1.8 calipers on my 92. Going to the track for first time on the 30th with pretty much stock setup. Im sure after that experience with street pads, I will be able to justify spending some $$$ on a good track set up. So many options out there, I want to do it right the first time.

Good info in this thread.

Sunshine Guy

Ahem, I beg your pardon, sir! No need to make me look foolishly inexperienced. I have several decades of proof I am quite capable of achieving that status without assistance.

Seriously, without the collective knowledge of owner forums like this, trial and error would have far more of the latter than success with the former. It lets all of us learn a few of the hard lessons on someone else's dime. So Jason (and everyone else), thanks and keep telling it like it is!

Sunshine Guy

I have decided to upgrade my '90 NA to the bigger/better, 2001 - 2005 factory Sport brakes. I tried to find the best parts I could at the best price. In case anyone else is considering this upgrade, I'm attaching images showing part numbers, descriptions, promotional codes, and pricing as of 10/26/14.

I bought 4 calipers and 4 rotors from RockAuto. The part numbers shown for the rebuilt A-1 Cardone calipers include no pads, but do include brackets, hardware, and they use metal pistons rather than cheap, Stick-O-Matic phenolics that rebuilders love so much.

The Raybestos rotors are their "Advanced Technology" series, having (supposedly) better iron and their tightest tolerances for balance, lateral run-out and thickness. The tight tolerances are about half of their standard series.

Calipers and rotors came to $551.25 with shipping. $166.00 in core charges is recoverable less an estimated $20.00 return shipping. Go to www.retailmenot.com/view/rockauto.com where you can almost always find a 5% off coupon code. Net/net, that makes calipers and rotors $388.56.

I chose Hawk HPS pads. Autoanything.com has a promotional code AA20 which gets you 20% off. With free shipping, pads for all four wheels is $118.14. You can buy other pads for less than half this price, but it is my opinion that the Hawk pads provide a high level of braking performance increase per extra dollar spent.

So, new calipers, rotors, and street performance pads come to $506.70. I think that's about half the cost of most entry-level "big brake" kits and should prove to be a worthwhile upgrade, especially on the early, '90 - '93 cars.

As with any brakes upgrade, you'll need to also buy enough brake fluid to completely flush the system and fill the new calipers. Brake fluid is a whole (hotly-contested) thread in itself. Condensing 10 pages into a paragraph, DOT 4 fluid would probably not harm my older, 1990 vintage, soft brake parts, but I've been bit in the **** enough times by "probably" that I'm sticking to a DOT 3 fluid. So I got Wilwood 570 which is a very high performing DOT 3. Summit Racing has a good price, shipped.

Also from Summit I got some LocTite Disc Brake Quiet, and a Motive Products pressure bleeder made specifically for the Miata. The pressure bleeder costs a few bucks but should make the process a lot easier. It also avoids unexpected, additional cost and aggravation when you alternately wear out your master cylinder trying to manually bleed the brakes.

Hopefully this info will serve as another data point for people weighing their options.

MX-Brad

Perfect timing on this as I'm considering the same upgrade. Thanks for the detailed info.

jreid1000

Kits are great but... I went a longer route with bigger challenges and a lot of guidance from CVX 20. Four pot RX-7 calipers, Probe hubs, fabricated brackets. As yet untested.

V8droptop

What size rotor on the rear? Also, what did you do for axles in the rear, does the probe hub keep the miata spline size?

Cheers,
nick

jreid1000

I used the Probe rear hubs on the front, part # 712119 at Rock Auto.. Closeout at $65.47 a pair incl shipping. Same as front RX-7 hubs but w/out anti-lock sensors.

Front disks are 1994 RX-7 at 11.57 diameter. Part #JBR761 at Rock Auto: Closeout...$37.98 a pair incl. shipping.

Rear axles are FFR items.

Rear disks are 10.236 inch diameter from 2001 Honda Prelude 2.2L. Part #JBR798 at Rock Auto: Closeout.. $29.53 a pair including shipping.

Rear hubs are re-drilled T-Bird with machine work. CVX 20 (Mike) has a wealth of knowledge, experience and has done a lot of research into this conversion. His blog on this is here:

MiataV8 Conversion: Five Lug Conversion

V8droptop

Good to know. I've got the same setup in general. Hubs are RX-7 ABS fronts, and Ford Mustang Cobra rears w/MarK VIII/FFR axles I'm assembling, trying to work out an ABS solution. I actually just picked up the FF stuff the other day, its not quite in yet.

My Rotors thus far are Hyundai Sonota and Mazda-3 2.3 or Mazdaspeed 3 fronts, haven't decided. But I have the wheel for large rotors, and I just need to match them to the willwood calipers I have selected.

Are you using the stock rear brake?