'96 beauty to become beast?
12-31-2013, 11:29 AM
#1
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'96 beauty to become beast?
I'm not certain I'm going to do the swap, but... I feel like I want to. So I'm in that 'incredibly annoying as-every-question-that-has-been-answered-a-billion-times-usethedamnsearchfunction' mode. I apologize in advance.
About the car:
I adore it. It is beautiful. I've taken great pains to bring this back to an earlier day (think 1962). The car is a true roadster; lightweight, nimble, well handling, and incredibly viscerally exciting to drive. It sings to you via the tailpipe, and it speaks to you through the wooden Nardi steering wheel. The tweed inserts screams classic styling. It is also my daily driver; I bought the car just a hint over a year ago and have put 25k on it in that time. In short, I love my car. Aside from power, it is very nearly done and my vision has almost been realized.
Here it is.
As I was digging around in all this I noticed that there are quite a few V8 Miatas for sale. And so I wonder why this is. Really, by all accounts, the V8 powered Miata is a supercar with amazing performance. Why would anyone want to get out of one? What's the compelling force to unload one after all the work?
Here's some more oddness from yours truly. I'm not in it for the power (entirely). I want MORE power, and I want it to be RELIABLE power. But most of all it has to be visceral. It has to sound classic. It must be... delicious... power; that powerplant needs to sound like automotive sex. The true enthusiasts of classic cars will understand this.
Of course part of me says 'hey, you're putting a V8 in, might as well go full bore'. These two ideas conflict to a degree. Honestly, a Ford 289/302 is the direction I'm inclined to go for sound/feel. Plus, it is directly related to the Sunbeam Alpine that I may convert to a faux Tiger. 2 cars with the same engine in the stable will undoubtedly have advantages. But...
I have a buddy with an LS1 block in his garage. And the LS1 is lighter, which means less weight at the nose, and even if I can't 'feel' it, there's no getting around extra weight at the nose having an effect on handling. So the LS1 is the obvious choice... or is it?
About the car:
I adore it. It is beautiful. I've taken great pains to bring this back to an earlier day (think 1962). The car is a true roadster; lightweight, nimble, well handling, and incredibly viscerally exciting to drive. It sings to you via the tailpipe, and it speaks to you through the wooden Nardi steering wheel. The tweed inserts screams classic styling. It is also my daily driver; I bought the car just a hint over a year ago and have put 25k on it in that time. In short, I love my car. Aside from power, it is very nearly done and my vision has almost been realized.
Here it is.
As I was digging around in all this I noticed that there are quite a few V8 Miatas for sale. And so I wonder why this is. Really, by all accounts, the V8 powered Miata is a supercar with amazing performance. Why would anyone want to get out of one? What's the compelling force to unload one after all the work?
Here's some more oddness from yours truly. I'm not in it for the power (entirely). I want MORE power, and I want it to be RELIABLE power. But most of all it has to be visceral. It has to sound classic. It must be... delicious... power; that powerplant needs to sound like automotive sex. The true enthusiasts of classic cars will understand this.
Of course part of me says 'hey, you're putting a V8 in, might as well go full bore'. These two ideas conflict to a degree. Honestly, a Ford 289/302 is the direction I'm inclined to go for sound/feel. Plus, it is directly related to the Sunbeam Alpine that I may convert to a faux Tiger. 2 cars with the same engine in the stable will undoubtedly have advantages. But...
I have a buddy with an LS1 block in his garage. And the LS1 is lighter, which means less weight at the nose, and even if I can't 'feel' it, there's no getting around extra weight at the nose having an effect on handling. So the LS1 is the obvious choice... or is it?
12-31-2013, 11:53 AM
#2
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey MC70, welcome to v8miata.net
Make sure to check out v8ms' picture gallery here
CLICK TO CHECK IT OUT - RATE PICTURES
Hope to see you around!
Make sure to check out v8ms' picture gallery here
CLICK TO CHECK IT OUT - RATE PICTURES
Hope to see you around!
12-31-2013, 01:18 PM
#3
My answers (or opinions) to the couple questions I found in your post.
1. Why sell a V8 Miata after putting all that work into it? Well, I'm sure everyone that sells their car has a reason and not all of them are the same. Some just enjoy the build process more than driving, so they sell and start another project. Some need the money. Some just need a change. But I have never ran across someone that was just not happy with the car and wanted to unload it.
2. Is LS1 the obvious choice. I don't think there is a real true answer to that. I think it comes down to loyalty. I have a carberated 302 that I built for my 68 mustang years ago . I love the old engines, they are very easy to run (no computer) and keep tuned. But that's me. I wouldn't know what to do with an LS.
1. Why sell a V8 Miata after putting all that work into it? Well, I'm sure everyone that sells their car has a reason and not all of them are the same. Some just enjoy the build process more than driving, so they sell and start another project. Some need the money. Some just need a change. But I have never ran across someone that was just not happy with the car and wanted to unload it.
2. Is LS1 the obvious choice. I don't think there is a real true answer to that. I think it comes down to loyalty. I have a carberated 302 that I built for my 68 mustang years ago . I love the old engines, they are very easy to run (no computer) and keep tuned. But that's me. I wouldn't know what to do with an LS.
12-31-2013, 03:46 PM
#5
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, WolfGT! I appreciate the compliment.
I am leaning heavily toward the 289/302; it is a nostalgic engine and is... pure.
I'm unrestricted when it comes to horsepower; I don't have any particular number aside from 200 in mind and all the engines will easily make that. If I were hunting ultimate horsepower, the LS1 would be a no-brainer. The only thing that comes into question between the two is where I want to put the weight and what I can live with.
Is there a way to use a carburetor in the car without cutting the hood? I don't mind going EFI, but that gets into engine management... Smarter at the end of the day, but more complex too.
I am leaning heavily toward the 289/302; it is a nostalgic engine and is... pure.
I'm unrestricted when it comes to horsepower; I don't have any particular number aside from 200 in mind and all the engines will easily make that. If I were hunting ultimate horsepower, the LS1 would be a no-brainer. The only thing that comes into question between the two is where I want to put the weight and what I can live with.
Is there a way to use a carburetor in the car without cutting the hood? I don't mind going EFI, but that gets into engine management... Smarter at the end of the day, but more complex too.
12-31-2013, 04:30 PM
#6
I don't know that much about the hood clearance, I have planned to go with a cowl induction hood from the beginning so I never really looked into the clearance issue. I'm sure someone on here can enlighten us.
12-31-2013, 04:32 PM
#7
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh. Oh my. I'm not sure how I'd get it here to TX but...
https://www.v8miata.net/v8-miata-rel...ort-block-457/
https://www.v8miata.net/v8-miata-rel...ort-block-457/
12-31-2013, 06:57 PM
#8
MC70, I won't give any advise on the engine choice,,,I will say I'm happy with my little 302 (currently a 310). It should be noted I do have the occasional bout of lust for the power and mpg of the LS engine cars,,,next time, maybe.
Yes the hood closes with a carb. You can see my setup if you click on my name and look at the album. I have two hoods, one with vents, one stock. On the vented hood I cut the rib directly above the carb and it works great. No obvious impact to the integrity of the hood. On the unmolested hood I run a thinner air filter, will likely cut the rib, just haven't' yet.
Yes the hood closes with a carb. You can see my setup if you click on my name and look at the album. I have two hoods, one with vents, one stock. On the vented hood I cut the rib directly above the carb and it works great. No obvious impact to the integrity of the hood. On the unmolested hood I run a thinner air filter, will likely cut the rib, just haven't' yet.
Last edited by 5.0MX5; 12-31-2013 at 06:59 PM.
12-31-2013, 07:35 PM
#10
Thanks,,,,MPG, well it all depends on how much fun I'm having. Average is high teens, low 20's. Best tank was 26. This was on my 1,000 mile shake down cruse when I wanted to see what was possible and on that tank I ran low 60s to 65mph. That's a very hard thing to do since I'm running a 3.08 rear and 80 is very comfortable.
My mileage is on the upper end of the Ford curve. Based on my reading, the LS guys regularly see mid to high 20's (26 plus) while cruising 80 or so.
My mileage is on the upper end of the Ford curve. Based on my reading, the LS guys regularly see mid to high 20's (26 plus) while cruising 80 or so.
01-01-2014, 10:34 AM
#11
V8 Miata Zealot
If you are only looking for 200 horsepower, a turbo or supercharger on your stock Miata engine would get you that along with great mileage. Much less money this way & less down-time for your daily driver.
01-01-2014, 11:01 AM
#12
Jim Stainer
Wow not sure how to answer that one. Or even exactly what the question is. I'll shoot from the gut...
1, People sell V8 Miatas for the same reason people sell Cobra kit cars or any other exotic car. Some want to move on to the next project, some out grow the faze and some look back and say selling it was the worst mistake of their life. I get the feeling you are into this car for the long haul so it's a moot point anyway. See #2...
2, The definition of "truth" is something that is true for all people, in all places and at all times. There is no Miata that is not improved by adding a V8. Period. I don't care if it is a 225 hp stock Mustang engine or a 700 hp blown LS7 every Miata in every situation is better for having proper a US power plant under the bonnet. That being said there is nothing wrong with turbos or supers if you just want a modest bump in HP and a modest price tag. However, see #3...
3, If exhaust note is anywhere in the top 3 of your reasons for doing a swap you absolutely want a Ford. I have tried lots of different things and there is nothing you can do to an LS to make it sound anywhere near as good as a SBF or SBC.
4, Forget about gas mileage. Even if you care about it now the first time you turn the key on your conversion it will never matter to you again.
5, If it makes you feel better budget your plan to put aluminum heads on the Ford option and forget about the weight difference between the LS and the Ford. Even with stock heads there is a slight difference between the 2 brands but it makes no difference at all in the car. Can you tell the difference in the handling of your car between a full tank of gas and an empty one? Neither will you tell the difference in a Ford or LS swap.
Now let me turn the tables on you and ask you a couple questions.
What is your budget for this build?
What is your mechanical ability and shop set up for this build?
Do you enjoy solving problems and large projects with many facets to them that take a lot of time and money to complete?
It looks like you are in snow country so my guess is you have a winter beater but do you have something you can drive for 4 to 8 months while your Miata is under the knife?
PS your car is beautiful and welcome to the forum!!!
1, People sell V8 Miatas for the same reason people sell Cobra kit cars or any other exotic car. Some want to move on to the next project, some out grow the faze and some look back and say selling it was the worst mistake of their life. I get the feeling you are into this car for the long haul so it's a moot point anyway. See #2...
2, The definition of "truth" is something that is true for all people, in all places and at all times. There is no Miata that is not improved by adding a V8. Period. I don't care if it is a 225 hp stock Mustang engine or a 700 hp blown LS7 every Miata in every situation is better for having proper a US power plant under the bonnet. That being said there is nothing wrong with turbos or supers if you just want a modest bump in HP and a modest price tag. However, see #3...
3, If exhaust note is anywhere in the top 3 of your reasons for doing a swap you absolutely want a Ford. I have tried lots of different things and there is nothing you can do to an LS to make it sound anywhere near as good as a SBF or SBC.
4, Forget about gas mileage. Even if you care about it now the first time you turn the key on your conversion it will never matter to you again.
5, If it makes you feel better budget your plan to put aluminum heads on the Ford option and forget about the weight difference between the LS and the Ford. Even with stock heads there is a slight difference between the 2 brands but it makes no difference at all in the car. Can you tell the difference in the handling of your car between a full tank of gas and an empty one? Neither will you tell the difference in a Ford or LS swap.
Now let me turn the tables on you and ask you a couple questions.
What is your budget for this build?
What is your mechanical ability and shop set up for this build?
Do you enjoy solving problems and large projects with many facets to them that take a lot of time and money to complete?
It looks like you are in snow country so my guess is you have a winter beater but do you have something you can drive for 4 to 8 months while your Miata is under the knife?
PS your car is beautiful and welcome to the forum!!!
Last edited by charchri4; 01-01-2014 at 11:04 AM.
01-01-2014, 11:52 AM
#13
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tbone heller,
No.
A SC/TC FI system isn't good for the way I use my car. While you're correct about a 'modest' price (not really modest, IMO) the headaches that come with an OBDII car and the endless mapping and tinkering are simply not what I want.
Moreover, I'm building this as my dream car. I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close. I could lament the fact that I don't have Ferrari money all day long, but that doesn't diminish the Miata in any way; arguably, the Mazda is the better car. It is just as beautiful (IMO, I know that's subjective), is something I can drive daily, and I can build up a V8 that sounds much more beautiful than a SC/TC setup for the cost of a garbage econobox at the local dealership. I think I'd sooner put a live grenade in my mouth than to listen to a SC/TC whine every day to and from work on the highway at 80+mph as it gobbled up my fuel. In this instance, economy is certainly going to be a wash between FI and a V8.
While I appreciate the suggestion, it just isn't something I'm interested in doing. I'd sooner just go with an ITB setup for the correct 1-4 engine feel of the lightweight roadster it is. However that also gets into endless tinkering as well. It needs to be dead reliable. A V8 will put 200 ponies on the ground all day long and not even know it is dragging a Miata around with it; that's understressing an engine and it makes for incredible reliability.
No.
A SC/TC FI system isn't good for the way I use my car. While you're correct about a 'modest' price (not really modest, IMO) the headaches that come with an OBDII car and the endless mapping and tinkering are simply not what I want.
Moreover, I'm building this as my dream car. I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close. I could lament the fact that I don't have Ferrari money all day long, but that doesn't diminish the Miata in any way; arguably, the Mazda is the better car. It is just as beautiful (IMO, I know that's subjective), is something I can drive daily, and I can build up a V8 that sounds much more beautiful than a SC/TC setup for the cost of a garbage econobox at the local dealership. I think I'd sooner put a live grenade in my mouth than to listen to a SC/TC whine every day to and from work on the highway at 80+mph as it gobbled up my fuel. In this instance, economy is certainly going to be a wash between FI and a V8.
While I appreciate the suggestion, it just isn't something I'm interested in doing. I'd sooner just go with an ITB setup for the correct 1-4 engine feel of the lightweight roadster it is. However that also gets into endless tinkering as well. It needs to be dead reliable. A V8 will put 200 ponies on the ground all day long and not even know it is dragging a Miata around with it; that's understressing an engine and it makes for incredible reliability.
01-01-2014, 12:02 PM
#14
Jim Stainer
LOL! Very well said MC70 ^^^. Just so you know tbone is a very sharp guy with a great car always good suggestions and wasn't looking to diss your plan.
Now I'm off to the custom bumper sticker site to print up "I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close."
Now I'm off to the custom bumper sticker site to print up "I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close."
Last edited by charchri4; 01-02-2014 at 08:06 AM.
01-01-2014, 12:20 PM
#15
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
charchri4, you're the reason I'm over here from CR.net. 
I think it is good to have you on 'your own turf' for these discussions, even though we've touched on a few of these before.
Let's get down to it (in addition to the above) to get you a clearer picture of what I'm after.
1: I'm building a daily-driven exotic. The build is truly one-off (as are most of these) but is not focused on horsepower. It is built to be a visceral experience. When I was a kid, my dad bought a 1964 Sunbeam Alpine MkIII GT. It had glass packs and knockoff wheels. When the engine started and was sucking fuel through the side-draft carbs near WOT it was... life shaping. I have since inherited the car. However, before I did, I set out to make my Miata as close to that experience as possible.
The Sunbeam, oddly, is the reason I'm considering a V8 in my Miata. The Sunbeam came as a V8 option (the Tiger) which utilized a Ford 289/302 powerplant. I realized that most of my dream cars from that era actually did use a V8 engine, and my ideas about a roadster needing to have a light I4 engine probably didn't hold as much water as I thought; it was a bias carried over from my father.
You see queues of the Sunbeam all over my car; or at least of roadsters from that era. My car is nothing short of a time machine. When I wake up, I already look forward to spending time in it on the way to work, and no matter how badly that day at work might have been, I smile on the way out to the parking lot because I know I get to drive it home. If driving my car was a job, I'd be a workaholic. No kidding. I love driving my car. But there are times I wish it had more power, and the thought of hearing a V8 rumble (oddly, especially a small V8) might well complete the theme.
Think Ferrari 275. All passion and beauty.
2: I'm tending to agree with you. If the car was gaining something like 400-500 lb in the swap, I don't think I'd consider it. However the weight gained will still put it on the light end of the car scale, and I would think the extra weight would help with traction even if there was a compromise in handling. Clearly, there's so much interest in swapping in other engines or going to forced induction that there can hardly be any question of whether or not adding power improves the car.
3: It is. Begging back to this being a very visceral car, it needs to sound correct. I'm not a fan of V8s on cars with straight pipes with massive displacement. A quick revving V8, with fairly low displacement is a thing of beauty, especially when run through stainless pipes, into a nice throaty muffler and out the back. It has to check both boxes, audio and visceral. It has to feel and sound right for the car. It isn't a singular modification to get me power. The most modest V8 may well do the trick, and do it appropriately.
4: I don't tend to get great mileage now. It isn't bad, but I'm to the point where it isn't the end of the day if I don't get great mileage. What I don't want is to have to stop every hour to fill back up though. I expect there's some gearing options that'll get me where I need to be. It is a consideration, but not a primary one. My wife's Volvo S60 with the T5 engine gets around 20-25mpg, so have some leeway there.
5: The tables turned:
What is your budget for this build?
-Much as I want, though I see no reason to go crazy. As I alluded to above, I expect I can build my dream car for less than $20k.
What is your mechanical ability and shop set up for this build?
-Aside from not welding, I'm very mechanical. However, I have limited space right now as I'm trying to get my Sunbeam from VA to TX to begin resto-mod in the only real shop space I'll have. Despite how very mechanically competent I am, I also know that once you've done any job several times, you get more efficient and you learn 'tricks' to do things the correct way the first time. The short answer is that I'd honestly rather have an SME do this for me. I'm reluctant to do so, but there are reasons. Not all are logical. Besides, the anticipation of flying out to the builder and driving my new car back home on a road trip... well... that's something of a gift.
Do you enjoy solving problems and large projects with many facets to them that take a lot of time and money to complete?
-Endlessly. However there's a matter of time, space, and money. Were I retired without kids entering college, I'd be all over this job, but I think my life isn't quite conducive to it right now.
It looks like you are in snow country so my guess is you have a winter beater but do you have something you can drive for 4 to 8 months while your Miata is under the knife?
-No, it's just a fluke ice storm and I thought it would make for some pretty theme pictures that show the robustness of the car and how it is, truly, a gentleman's car (and not a hairdresser's car). I have means to drive another Miata in the mean time, but I'd rather not have my car in bits for so long. This is a little more support for having a pro-shop that I trust do it.
PS your car is beautiful and welcome to the forum!!!
-That's extremely high praise and I'm humbled by it. And thanks, this forum seems great!
I think it is good to have you on 'your own turf' for these discussions, even though we've touched on a few of these before.Let's get down to it (in addition to the above) to get you a clearer picture of what I'm after.
1: I'm building a daily-driven exotic. The build is truly one-off (as are most of these) but is not focused on horsepower. It is built to be a visceral experience. When I was a kid, my dad bought a 1964 Sunbeam Alpine MkIII GT. It had glass packs and knockoff wheels. When the engine started and was sucking fuel through the side-draft carbs near WOT it was... life shaping. I have since inherited the car. However, before I did, I set out to make my Miata as close to that experience as possible.
The Sunbeam, oddly, is the reason I'm considering a V8 in my Miata. The Sunbeam came as a V8 option (the Tiger) which utilized a Ford 289/302 powerplant. I realized that most of my dream cars from that era actually did use a V8 engine, and my ideas about a roadster needing to have a light I4 engine probably didn't hold as much water as I thought; it was a bias carried over from my father.
You see queues of the Sunbeam all over my car; or at least of roadsters from that era. My car is nothing short of a time machine. When I wake up, I already look forward to spending time in it on the way to work, and no matter how badly that day at work might have been, I smile on the way out to the parking lot because I know I get to drive it home. If driving my car was a job, I'd be a workaholic. No kidding. I love driving my car. But there are times I wish it had more power, and the thought of hearing a V8 rumble (oddly, especially a small V8) might well complete the theme.
Think Ferrari 275. All passion and beauty.
2: I'm tending to agree with you. If the car was gaining something like 400-500 lb in the swap, I don't think I'd consider it. However the weight gained will still put it on the light end of the car scale, and I would think the extra weight would help with traction even if there was a compromise in handling. Clearly, there's so much interest in swapping in other engines or going to forced induction that there can hardly be any question of whether or not adding power improves the car.
3: It is. Begging back to this being a very visceral car, it needs to sound correct. I'm not a fan of V8s on cars with straight pipes with massive displacement. A quick revving V8, with fairly low displacement is a thing of beauty, especially when run through stainless pipes, into a nice throaty muffler and out the back. It has to check both boxes, audio and visceral. It has to feel and sound right for the car. It isn't a singular modification to get me power. The most modest V8 may well do the trick, and do it appropriately.
4: I don't tend to get great mileage now. It isn't bad, but I'm to the point where it isn't the end of the day if I don't get great mileage. What I don't want is to have to stop every hour to fill back up though. I expect there's some gearing options that'll get me where I need to be. It is a consideration, but not a primary one. My wife's Volvo S60 with the T5 engine gets around 20-25mpg, so have some leeway there.
5: The tables turned:
What is your budget for this build?
-Much as I want, though I see no reason to go crazy. As I alluded to above, I expect I can build my dream car for less than $20k.
What is your mechanical ability and shop set up for this build?
-Aside from not welding, I'm very mechanical. However, I have limited space right now as I'm trying to get my Sunbeam from VA to TX to begin resto-mod in the only real shop space I'll have. Despite how very mechanically competent I am, I also know that once you've done any job several times, you get more efficient and you learn 'tricks' to do things the correct way the first time. The short answer is that I'd honestly rather have an SME do this for me. I'm reluctant to do so, but there are reasons. Not all are logical. Besides, the anticipation of flying out to the builder and driving my new car back home on a road trip... well... that's something of a gift.
Do you enjoy solving problems and large projects with many facets to them that take a lot of time and money to complete?
-Endlessly. However there's a matter of time, space, and money. Were I retired without kids entering college, I'd be all over this job, but I think my life isn't quite conducive to it right now.
It looks like you are in snow country so my guess is you have a winter beater but do you have something you can drive for 4 to 8 months while your Miata is under the knife?
-No, it's just a fluke ice storm and I thought it would make for some pretty theme pictures that show the robustness of the car and how it is, truly, a gentleman's car (and not a hairdresser's car). I have means to drive another Miata in the mean time, but I'd rather not have my car in bits for so long. This is a little more support for having a pro-shop that I trust do it.
PS your car is beautiful and welcome to the forum!!!
-That's extremely high praise and I'm humbled by it. And thanks, this forum seems great!
01-01-2014, 12:24 PM
#16
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL! Very well said MC70 ^^^. Just so you know tbone is a very sharp guy with a great car always good suggestions and wasn't looking to diss your plan.
Now I'm off to the custom bumper sticker site now to print up "I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close."
Now I'm off to the custom bumper sticker site now to print up "I'll never have a Ferrari, but this car is damn close."
And this is probably what I should have written in the first place. LOL
01-01-2014, 02:59 PM
#17
Jim Stainer
A tiger in your garage! I love it! I saw one once at a track day and what a fine machine. It was a 64, bone stock and in great daily driver condition. The gal that owned it drove it 3 hours to the track. She never got over 90 with the small brakes and such on the car but it out classed everyone there for sure. Just a wonderful car. You are a lucky man!!
My warpage came from our neighbors 65 big block vette. He got it when I was about 11 and I'll never forget the time when I was about 15 my older brother commented on how hot the guys wife is as they went by. Honestly I never noticed who was in the car but the sound of that 427 with the side pipes and all those curves changed me forever! 2 years later I was building a very high performance 289 for a 65 Mustang fast back. The hormones did catch up with me thought and 3 years after that I was putting AC in the mustang for a honeymoon trip...
Yeah you are a V8 Miata guy for sure and would never be happy with anything less. You can gear that 5.0 to get decent mileage and it's not a huge deal to put a 6 speed behind them either. Between the history, the car and you, it all looks like a match made in heaven to me...
If you are considering farming it out there are a couple of guys on this site that would probably consider it. Have you met Jason McCully yet? Time would be an issue for him with preschoolers at home but he is an absolute top flight builder. I'm an empty nester and would love to do it more for the challenge wrap my brain around your values and vision for the build to grow through that process than anything else. This is Jasons site: McCully Racing Motors- There's no Replacement for Displacement.
So are you in Gods country then? Texas of course, not Virginia...
My warpage came from our neighbors 65 big block vette. He got it when I was about 11 and I'll never forget the time when I was about 15 my older brother commented on how hot the guys wife is as they went by. Honestly I never noticed who was in the car but the sound of that 427 with the side pipes and all those curves changed me forever! 2 years later I was building a very high performance 289 for a 65 Mustang fast back. The hormones did catch up with me thought and 3 years after that I was putting AC in the mustang for a honeymoon trip...
Yeah you are a V8 Miata guy for sure and would never be happy with anything less. You can gear that 5.0 to get decent mileage and it's not a huge deal to put a 6 speed behind them either. Between the history, the car and you, it all looks like a match made in heaven to me...
If you are considering farming it out there are a couple of guys on this site that would probably consider it. Have you met Jason McCully yet? Time would be an issue for him with preschoolers at home but he is an absolute top flight builder. I'm an empty nester and would love to do it more for the challenge wrap my brain around your values and vision for the build to grow through that process than anything else. This is Jasons site: McCully Racing Motors- There's no Replacement for Displacement.
So are you in Gods country then? Texas of course, not Virginia...
Last edited by charchri4; 01-02-2014 at 08:08 AM.
01-01-2014, 03:30 PM
#18
Administrator
MC70, welcome. I've seen your car over at CR and was impressed with it.
You're in this for many of the same reasons I first dabbled in it. The Tiger was an inspiration of mine two the first time out.
Based on what you've written I think a slightly warmed up 5.0 would be good for you. I built my third build (also a white NA) to that spec and I ended up with a nice 240 rwhp, 25 mpg and a car that was easily daily drivable in any weather that cost me very little to build because everything was an oem Ford part. Here's what I had in it:
-Bottom end of the engine was a stock Ford reman 306 (306 is the standard overbore number)( about $1500 - $2000). The cam was a stock 1992 Mustang cam off ebay ($45)
-The heads, mass air meter, throttle body, injectors and upper/lower intake came off of a 1995 Explorer (about $200 total). These parts are known as "GT40" parts and are responsible for the extra 50 rwhp (stock Mustang 5.0's will make about 190 rwhp).
-The accessories with the exception of the alternator (1996 V6 Mustang) and PS pump (Miata) came off a 1991 Mustang. The AC compressor and WP were new, the timing cover and brackets were from a yard (all together about $200).
-Because the cam was stock and because the GT40 parts do not change engine parameters that much I was able to use a stock, untuned 1991 Mustang a9l ecu. The harnesses and ecu can be picked up on ebay for about $250. I can modify the harness for you so its plug and play for $225. For a few hundred more you can go with a MS2 or 3 which give you a whole other area to tinker with.
-Used 1991 Mustang GT trans - $500
-Used 1996 Thunderbird differential with limited slip - $35
-New 1996 Thunderbird half shafts - $170
-Driveshaft - Aluminum one from me for $500+/- or a steel one from Summit for $400
-Exhaust system - $1000 from local muffler shop
-Conversion Kit - Pretty much everything else is part of the Monster Miata kit which ships for about $4300 last I checked. This includes the parts form the rear mounting, modification to the front subframe, oil pan and rear hubs, headers, radiator, transmission mount, radiator, new springs, new clutch hydraulics, etc.
Since you're looking for a "retro" type of experience the kit's suspension solution should work fine for you. The stock 1996 brakes should be more than fine for the street with the right pads. The Monster Miata kit requires no welding and very minimal interior disassemblely (you'll have to take out the glove box and blower to drill a hole for the wire harness) which save a lot of time. To save even more time get a second of each of the donor parts you'll need to send to Monster Miata so that you do not need to pull them off your car before hand (front subframe, Ford Oil pan (get a new one) and a set of Miata rear hubs). If you wait until you have everything ready to go on the car before you take it off the road you can have the car done in under a month. I did my last in 18 8 hour days.
An added dose of retro would be to drop the Ford FI stuff and go with a carb. You can get a low profile manifold and air cleaner to fit it under the stock hood. Ironically, compared to the stock FI components I wrote up above the price of a good carb and intake is going to be about the same. They are not cheap. The other issue with the carb is your desire for get-in-and-go reliability. Carbs require frequent "tune ups" which FI does not.
An interesting solution for you that would get you a retro carb appearance yet modern FI reliability would be to go with a self-tuning throttle body aftermarket fuel injection system such as the ones from MSD or Fast. They all run about $1000 to $2000 but are supposed to be pretty reliable. The stock Mustang or Explorer intake does not look 1960's. A throttle body system looks just like a carb.
Good luck with this, I can't wait to see how it turns out.
-Jason
You're in this for many of the same reasons I first dabbled in it. The Tiger was an inspiration of mine two the first time out.
Based on what you've written I think a slightly warmed up 5.0 would be good for you. I built my third build (also a white NA) to that spec and I ended up with a nice 240 rwhp, 25 mpg and a car that was easily daily drivable in any weather that cost me very little to build because everything was an oem Ford part. Here's what I had in it:
-Bottom end of the engine was a stock Ford reman 306 (306 is the standard overbore number)( about $1500 - $2000). The cam was a stock 1992 Mustang cam off ebay ($45)
-The heads, mass air meter, throttle body, injectors and upper/lower intake came off of a 1995 Explorer (about $200 total). These parts are known as "GT40" parts and are responsible for the extra 50 rwhp (stock Mustang 5.0's will make about 190 rwhp).
-The accessories with the exception of the alternator (1996 V6 Mustang) and PS pump (Miata) came off a 1991 Mustang. The AC compressor and WP were new, the timing cover and brackets were from a yard (all together about $200).
-Because the cam was stock and because the GT40 parts do not change engine parameters that much I was able to use a stock, untuned 1991 Mustang a9l ecu. The harnesses and ecu can be picked up on ebay for about $250. I can modify the harness for you so its plug and play for $225. For a few hundred more you can go with a MS2 or 3 which give you a whole other area to tinker with.
-Used 1991 Mustang GT trans - $500
-Used 1996 Thunderbird differential with limited slip - $35
-New 1996 Thunderbird half shafts - $170
-Driveshaft - Aluminum one from me for $500+/- or a steel one from Summit for $400
-Exhaust system - $1000 from local muffler shop
-Conversion Kit - Pretty much everything else is part of the Monster Miata kit which ships for about $4300 last I checked. This includes the parts form the rear mounting, modification to the front subframe, oil pan and rear hubs, headers, radiator, transmission mount, radiator, new springs, new clutch hydraulics, etc.
Since you're looking for a "retro" type of experience the kit's suspension solution should work fine for you. The stock 1996 brakes should be more than fine for the street with the right pads. The Monster Miata kit requires no welding and very minimal interior disassemblely (you'll have to take out the glove box and blower to drill a hole for the wire harness) which save a lot of time. To save even more time get a second of each of the donor parts you'll need to send to Monster Miata so that you do not need to pull them off your car before hand (front subframe, Ford Oil pan (get a new one) and a set of Miata rear hubs). If you wait until you have everything ready to go on the car before you take it off the road you can have the car done in under a month. I did my last in 18 8 hour days.
An added dose of retro would be to drop the Ford FI stuff and go with a carb. You can get a low profile manifold and air cleaner to fit it under the stock hood. Ironically, compared to the stock FI components I wrote up above the price of a good carb and intake is going to be about the same. They are not cheap. The other issue with the carb is your desire for get-in-and-go reliability. Carbs require frequent "tune ups" which FI does not.
An interesting solution for you that would get you a retro carb appearance yet modern FI reliability would be to go with a self-tuning throttle body aftermarket fuel injection system such as the ones from MSD or Fast. They all run about $1000 to $2000 but are supposed to be pretty reliable. The stock Mustang or Explorer intake does not look 1960's. A throttle body system looks just like a carb.
Good luck with this, I can't wait to see how it turns out.
-Jason
01-01-2014, 03:38 PM
#19
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, Texas. And I do love VA. I also love TX; it's a bit of a mixing pot for all the places I've traveled in my active duty and Army brat careers.
I should also add the following about my car history:
My dad was a Volvo guy. When I was 4 we drove from MD toward CA. Never made it. The gas ran out and the Amazon broke down in UT where he was a handyman for an apartment complex. While there, he bought a parts Amazon and said it was mine. Thus my first car was in my possession at the ripe age of 4. Due to bad parenting I spent a great deal of time in the car studying every detail. When dad was around, he was fascinated with the Jaguar Saloon owned by a publisher who lived in the apartments. I loved hearing that pop and rumble. The burled walnut dash, leather with piping, and chrome accents... delicious. And when out with them for an outing, my father ran into a fellow with a Mercedes Gullwing. Yup. I got a ride in it. I was 5. It was amazing, though my memory of that is sort of half imagined at this point.
Then the Sunbeam. Then I owned a host of air cooled VWs (my favorite was a 1971 Karmann Convertible). The next most interesting car was a 1958 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite. My favorite dream car? A TR-4. I love them.
And I recently got behind the wheel of my best friend's TR-6. Delightful. It made me love and loathe my Miata at the same time. Amazing.
I suppose the common thread through all of this is that all the cars which have influenced me; the things that defined what the true automotoring experience is to me, have been a brilliant cacophony of style, tactile input, smell, and sound. The sum of the parts add up to a much greater experience than any one element.
I should also add the following about my car history:
My dad was a Volvo guy. When I was 4 we drove from MD toward CA. Never made it. The gas ran out and the Amazon broke down in UT where he was a handyman for an apartment complex. While there, he bought a parts Amazon and said it was mine. Thus my first car was in my possession at the ripe age of 4. Due to bad parenting I spent a great deal of time in the car studying every detail. When dad was around, he was fascinated with the Jaguar Saloon owned by a publisher who lived in the apartments. I loved hearing that pop and rumble. The burled walnut dash, leather with piping, and chrome accents... delicious. And when out with them for an outing, my father ran into a fellow with a Mercedes Gullwing. Yup. I got a ride in it. I was 5. It was amazing, though my memory of that is sort of half imagined at this point.
Then the Sunbeam. Then I owned a host of air cooled VWs (my favorite was a 1971 Karmann Convertible). The next most interesting car was a 1958 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite. My favorite dream car? A TR-4. I love them.
And I recently got behind the wheel of my best friend's TR-6. Delightful. It made me love and loathe my Miata at the same time. Amazing.
I suppose the common thread through all of this is that all the cars which have influenced me; the things that defined what the true automotoring experience is to me, have been a brilliant cacophony of style, tactile input, smell, and sound. The sum of the parts add up to a much greater experience than any one element.
01-02-2014, 06:27 PM
#21
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^That car is the ****!
And flattery will get you everywhere. If you liked that, you might also like a little read about my first Miata: Grandma and the NA
I wish I'd have proofed it just a bit better; I was just pouring words out as my memories came. And to be honest, it is a condensed version of the truth that's made a little more cohesive, but the intent and emotion is accurate. Some of you might enjoy it. It is, truly, one of the reasons I love Miatas. And Sunbeams... or really, just nasty little Brit roadsters that make too much noise Page 2 has a photo of us from many moons past.
And flattery will get you everywhere. If you liked that, you might also like a little read about my first Miata: Grandma and the NA
I wish I'd have proofed it just a bit better; I was just pouring words out as my memories came. And to be honest, it is a condensed version of the truth that's made a little more cohesive, but the intent and emotion is accurate. Some of you might enjoy it. It is, truly, one of the reasons I love Miatas. And Sunbeams... or really, just nasty little Brit roadsters that make too much noise
Page 2 has a photo of us from many moons past.
01-03-2014, 12:44 PM
#22
Jim Stainer
Wow didn't see that one coming. Thought I was just tired but glad to see everyone else teared up too.
Sounds like you did end up with the Tiger right? Or is it a different one? You should go back in that thread and bring it up to date and post some pix of it. It’s such a great story and what a heritage and wonderful passion to have. Nothing better than loving a car that is so worth loving!!
Oh and if you have not come to this conclusion yet a 5.0 with enough cam to have a lovely idle chop with flowmasters or magnaflows in your Miata would be the best 10 grand you ever spent. No ifs ands or buts about it!
Sounds like you did end up with the Tiger right? Or is it a different one? You should go back in that thread and bring it up to date and post some pix of it. It’s such a great story and what a heritage and wonderful passion to have. Nothing better than loving a car that is so worth loving!!
Oh and if you have not come to this conclusion yet a 5.0 with enough cam to have a lovely idle chop with flowmasters or magnaflows in your Miata would be the best 10 grand you ever spent. No ifs ands or buts about it!
01-04-2014, 10:47 AM
#23
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to take a little latitude with this thread, you know, because I started it and all.
About the Sunbeam:
The Sunbeam is an Alpine; it's actually the rarest of the rare Alpines. It didn't even come with a convertible top; it's hardtop or nothing. It currently has a little 4-banger in it which sucks in cold gasses via a sidedraft carb (Solex or Stromberg, I think, but I'd have to check), and the hot gasses are routed out little more than a straight pipe which has a hint of a glass pack between the header and the tailpipe. However, in 1987 the car spun a main bearing in Hawaii while my dad was taking my sister for a drive. The car hasn't been driven since and has continued to fall into a state of disrepair. In fact, it has become derelict. And that's a very sad thing. When we went to Hawaii for a two year tour (Army) the Sunbeam was left with my 16 year old uncle as his first car to shoot around Whittier, CA.
We purchased it, sometime back in 1975/6 from someone at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. The story my dad told was that the kid wanted some pot money and the car had been giving him some problems, so he sold it to my dad for $500. It was wearing a cheap coat of magenta paint (not its original color), and as I recall, it drove fine after a little tune up, but may have had a brake problem or some reason that my father didn't drive it often. In fact, the only real time I spent in that car was in the story I described in the link above, tearing through the back streets of Whittier (this was just a day before we left for Hawaii, where a year and a half later the car was shipped out to us). When we did get it, the car was wearing a powder blue Maaco or Earl Schieb paint job. That color just didn't improve anything, and it had already started to come off.
The next assignment was Ft. Belvoir, VA; just a hint south of Washington DC. The car was parked in the driveway under a cotton car cover and left to sit in the elements. Any work we'd tried to do on the car in Hawaii to correct the paint abruptly stopped with the engine failure and the car sat. And it sat. And it rotted. The only attention it ever got was from me, and I wasn't able to do much, and I couldn't keep my father interested in it.
With the memories of the Sunbeam in my head, and my inability to turn up a good Brit roadster to work on of my own (I was looking for an early model MGB) I came across a 1971 Karmann Ghia convertible and snapped it up for $600. I began restoring it, but this came to a halt late one fall day. The engine had seized on the way home from Ocean City, MD and it was towed back to the post where I began an engine swap. I could do the swap in about half an hour, but I got a call to go into work at the PX and so dropped what I was doing and headed in, knowing I'd get the swap complete later that evening.
As it turned out, an eager MP decided that we shouldn't be doing that in the driveway (despite seeing my dad do it a hundred times before on his various klunkers) and ordered the cars towed to the impound yard. They damaged the Sunbeam in the process, dropping something against the rear left fender and putting a big dent in it. I think that sealed the Sunbeam's fate for my father. Here's a pic of it sitting in the impound lot in what I'd guess was 1988 (note the dent in the fender):
It followed my father down to Williamsburg, and lived in the garage for over a decade, providing a shelf surface for boxes and anything else that they felt like leaning up against it. For the better part of that time, it was impossible to even see the car as it was so cocooned under a mass of boxes, blankets, and general garbage. It sat, neglected.
My father passed away in 2012, and the only thing I had ever hoped to get from my father's estate was the Sunbeam so that I might actually work on it with my sons; to make this a positive addition to our family. My mother and I are generally estranged and she didn't want to give me anything at all; and still, really, doesn't. However, she decided she wanted the garage space more than she wanted to continue to deny me the Sunbeam (I suspect she discovered it would cost her money to have the car towed out of the garage, and she knew I'd do it for free). So, a year later I was told that if I didn't come and get the car she'd have it towed out for scrap.
I couldn't let that happen. If it was going to be scrapped, I'd be the one to do it, but it would be a decision made by someone who had history with the car. I had a very tight timeline to get there before she had the car towed, and so I decided to take a road trip in the Miata from TX to VA in my Miata with my youngest son. The trip was brilliant. We had an amazing time getting there. And my son met my uncle (the one who had the car in CA while we were in HI) while I was there. My uncle hadn't seen the car since he was a teen in CA.
When we opened the garage, my uncle and I were both horrified. There's something terrible about seeing something you loved; something that had so many beautiful memories (all cemented deeply into your history as they were so visceral) fall into ruin from neglect.
This is what I found:
Dragging it out:
My uncle showed up just after we'd gotten it out of the garage. This is the first time he'd seen the car since 1982.
Trying to make light of it... You should have seen the heartbreak prior to this pic:
This pic sort of sums it up. It sort of broke my heart seeing this; you can almost see him wading through memories of driving this car around the beaches of CA with a pretty girl at his side:
About the Sunbeam:
The Sunbeam is an Alpine; it's actually the rarest of the rare Alpines. It didn't even come with a convertible top; it's hardtop or nothing. It currently has a little 4-banger in it which sucks in cold gasses via a sidedraft carb (Solex or Stromberg, I think, but I'd have to check), and the hot gasses are routed out little more than a straight pipe which has a hint of a glass pack between the header and the tailpipe. However, in 1987 the car spun a main bearing in Hawaii while my dad was taking my sister for a drive. The car hasn't been driven since and has continued to fall into a state of disrepair. In fact, it has become derelict. And that's a very sad thing. When we went to Hawaii for a two year tour (Army) the Sunbeam was left with my 16 year old uncle as his first car to shoot around Whittier, CA.
We purchased it, sometime back in 1975/6 from someone at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. The story my dad told was that the kid wanted some pot money and the car had been giving him some problems, so he sold it to my dad for $500. It was wearing a cheap coat of magenta paint (not its original color), and as I recall, it drove fine after a little tune up, but may have had a brake problem or some reason that my father didn't drive it often. In fact, the only real time I spent in that car was in the story I described in the link above, tearing through the back streets of Whittier (this was just a day before we left for Hawaii, where a year and a half later the car was shipped out to us). When we did get it, the car was wearing a powder blue Maaco or Earl Schieb paint job. That color just didn't improve anything, and it had already started to come off.
The next assignment was Ft. Belvoir, VA; just a hint south of Washington DC. The car was parked in the driveway under a cotton car cover and left to sit in the elements. Any work we'd tried to do on the car in Hawaii to correct the paint abruptly stopped with the engine failure and the car sat. And it sat. And it rotted. The only attention it ever got was from me, and I wasn't able to do much, and I couldn't keep my father interested in it.
With the memories of the Sunbeam in my head, and my inability to turn up a good Brit roadster to work on of my own (I was looking for an early model MGB) I came across a 1971 Karmann Ghia convertible and snapped it up for $600. I began restoring it, but this came to a halt late one fall day. The engine had seized on the way home from Ocean City, MD and it was towed back to the post where I began an engine swap. I could do the swap in about half an hour, but I got a call to go into work at the PX and so dropped what I was doing and headed in, knowing I'd get the swap complete later that evening.
As it turned out, an eager MP decided that we shouldn't be doing that in the driveway (despite seeing my dad do it a hundred times before on his various klunkers) and ordered the cars towed to the impound yard. They damaged the Sunbeam in the process, dropping something against the rear left fender and putting a big dent in it. I think that sealed the Sunbeam's fate for my father. Here's a pic of it sitting in the impound lot in what I'd guess was 1988 (note the dent in the fender):
It followed my father down to Williamsburg, and lived in the garage for over a decade, providing a shelf surface for boxes and anything else that they felt like leaning up against it. For the better part of that time, it was impossible to even see the car as it was so cocooned under a mass of boxes, blankets, and general garbage. It sat, neglected.
My father passed away in 2012, and the only thing I had ever hoped to get from my father's estate was the Sunbeam so that I might actually work on it with my sons; to make this a positive addition to our family. My mother and I are generally estranged and she didn't want to give me anything at all; and still, really, doesn't. However, she decided she wanted the garage space more than she wanted to continue to deny me the Sunbeam (I suspect she discovered it would cost her money to have the car towed out of the garage, and she knew I'd do it for free). So, a year later I was told that if I didn't come and get the car she'd have it towed out for scrap.
I couldn't let that happen. If it was going to be scrapped, I'd be the one to do it, but it would be a decision made by someone who had history with the car. I had a very tight timeline to get there before she had the car towed, and so I decided to take a road trip in the Miata from TX to VA in my Miata with my youngest son. The trip was brilliant. We had an amazing time getting there. And my son met my uncle (the one who had the car in CA while we were in HI) while I was there. My uncle hadn't seen the car since he was a teen in CA.
When we opened the garage, my uncle and I were both horrified. There's something terrible about seeing something you loved; something that had so many beautiful memories (all cemented deeply into your history as they were so visceral) fall into ruin from neglect.
This is what I found:
Dragging it out:
My uncle showed up just after we'd gotten it out of the garage. This is the first time he'd seen the car since 1982.
Trying to make light of it... You should have seen the heartbreak prior to this pic:
This pic sort of sums it up. It sort of broke my heart seeing this; you can almost see him wading through memories of driving this car around the beaches of CA with a pretty girl at his side:
01-04-2014, 10:59 AM
#24
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a kid, I remember being fascinated at the blending of wood in the car. I loved the seats, the stitching. I loved the noises it made. I loved the chrome trim around the gauges that looked like they'd come straight out of a WWII fighter. And the smell... There's a smell that all old Brit roadsters have; it's a musk slightly tinted with exhaust, oils, and cushion stuffing. It is amazing. I should bottle it and sell it as the ultimate gentleman's cologne (though it'd probably repulse women).
The disrepair didn't stop at the exterior though. The interior was worse than I could have imagined. The beautiful burl walnut dash was in tatters. The trim on the gauges was beginning to pit, and the seats had simply started to disintegrate. The cheap carpet that someone had thrown in (I remember thinking as a kid that this was the single ugliest carpet I'd ever seen), was even uglier. The hood no longer shut, and neither did the trunk.
This, to me, looks like sadness:
The disrepair didn't stop at the exterior though. The interior was worse than I could have imagined. The beautiful burl walnut dash was in tatters. The trim on the gauges was beginning to pit, and the seats had simply started to disintegrate. The cheap carpet that someone had thrown in (I remember thinking as a kid that this was the single ugliest carpet I'd ever seen), was even uglier. The hood no longer shut, and neither did the trunk.
This, to me, looks like sadness:
01-04-2014, 11:05 AM
#25
V8 Miata Noob
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had to leave a day later to return to TX. Work and life awaited, and I needed to tend to it. And I still had a few more adventures to uncover with my youngest son (the most amazing of those would be Luray Caverns). But an unexpected car gem was discovered at the International Spy Museum where an Aston Martin DB5 lives in all its James Bond, Q-enhanced glory.
But before I left, I needed to get the car tucked safely away in a storage lot. It sat here for a little over a month before being towed up to my sister's house in Rockville, VA where it is covered, in a field (its life hasn't improved much, but it will soon). Here it is, along with my Miata:
What the hell am I getting myself into?
My uncle, giving his old friend a little love:
Two generations of owners; two generations of cars:
But before I left, I needed to get the car tucked safely away in a storage lot. It sat here for a little over a month before being towed up to my sister's house in Rockville, VA where it is covered, in a field (its life hasn't improved much, but it will soon). Here it is, along with my Miata:
What the hell am I getting myself into?
My uncle, giving his old friend a little love:
Two generations of owners; two generations of cars:
