Nowak1981

I just wanted to clarify which part of which axles I need to build. My understanding is miata outer cup, miata shaft, and tbird inner cup. In there anything specific about the tbird cup I need to look for?

Thanks

Gabriel

humm.... if you're using the Monster Miata axles that is incorrect.

you use Ford T-bird inner AND outer CV joints... the wheel hubs are re-broached by monster miata for the tbird CV to fit..

Also, you need to use the CV joints from the tbird 7.5 axles, the ones made for the 8.8 are too big they do not clear the miata shock. The 7.5 CVs fit and work just fine with the 8.8 diff, the joint itself is just made a bit smaller..

charchri4

Oh Gabe I don't think that is right. I think the axles are the same for the 7.5 and the 8.8. At least they are in the parts catalogs for a 1995 T bird. You have options for with and with out ABS but both the non ABS 7.5 and non ABS 8.8 use the same shaft.

The trick to clearing the shock is using an audi boot. Details are half way down the page here: Jim and Jenna build diary, Miata LS1 Conversion: The 3rd half of the back half, 8.8 Ford axles in a Miata.

When I saw you stuffing the tbird boot in there I yelled at the screen wait there's a better way!

Gabriel

REALLY???? ok.. Well, when I had a conversation with Martin a while back when i decided to go with the 8.8, He gave me the part number for the A1 Cardone axle for the 7.5... I interpreted that he said to make sure i buy the 7.5 CVs.. Which is what I bought. Until now i was certain it was a different part number for the 8.8 axle and the 7.5... oh well, no matter


just for the record though, i did not stuff the t-bird boot in there, I used the boots provided in the monster miata kit..

tbone heller

I have a set of the Audi boots to install one day because the Monster Miata kit boots will "balloon-up" at high speed & rub a hole in them. At least mine did.

charchri4

Ditto I did the exact same thing with Martin and I was sure to order the 7.5 joints he gave me the part number on. It's when his boots looked like putting a 2 ton pig in a 1 ton stall did I start looking into it for myself. Turns out the cardone part number is the same for the V6, V8 and the super coupe for 1995 thus it crosses from 7.5 to 8.8 with the same axle.

I sent Martin that shaft info along with the part number and photos that are on my blog for the Audi boots. He called me and asked all about the boots, said they looked great and that he was going to try them and look at changing them in his kit. I passed on the chance to comment on his diff mount because he didn't ask and I couldn't find one good thing to say about it to keep the conversation positive. Anyway you went down the exact same road I did a year later and got the same boots and shaft info as I did so probably no matter anyway.

MX-Brad

Was the part number posted for the Audi boots or did I miss that?

charchri4

Well not in so many words but I put a pretty good hint with a good shot of the box they came in on the blog...


I got mine here and it's petty hard to beat for under 5 bucks...

Nowak1981

Sweet, good info is the best!

Nowak1981

Just for ***** and giggles I decided to look up axles at advance auto parts.com

I looked up five cars

1996 thunderbird lx 3.8
1996 thunderbird lx 4.6

1995 thunderbird lx 3.8
1995 thunderbird sc 3.8
1995 thunderbird lx 4.6

I was expecting all the part numbers to match, but they don't.

These are advance tough one part numbers

All the 3.8 have axle part number ncv11995

All the 4.6 have axle part number ncv11998


The difference is abs, near as I can tell.


The a1cardone catalog also lists different numbers, as many as four different.

Cardone Mobile WEBCAT


Ok this is a pain, I hate comparing parts on a computer.....

I work at napa tomarrow, I'm gonna grab an axle book, and finally put this discussion to bed.

Gabriel

BY THE WAY - speaking of these axles..... did anyone else find it a HUGE PAIN IN THE A$S to get the outer CVs off these axles? I found the inside edge of the CV are just not made to make that retainer clip compress and squeeze back in... on both I banged for hours until the retainer clip finally shattered and the CV came off...

the other option is to cut the tbird shaft as close to the CV as possible, then you can take out the guts of the CV and pull the left over shaft peice out... but you risk damaging the CV joint which has to be well cleaned and repacked after....

charchri4

Capital idea Chris! I'd like to know what the NAPA book says the differences are.

From what I found it totally depends on the manufacturer if they change the part number so my guess is they don't know either. Check this out.

This is the NAPA stuff and see the 957204, 957205 and 957206 numbers matches for both but the other one does not.



This is from O Reillys Notice the FD8082 works on with all 3 engines and the other 2 show different numbers.





Same with Rock auto. The one number matches and the other 2 don't.



So yeah they are all over the map but I'm pretty sure they are interchangeable. The axles from Martin are the same for both for what that's worth. For him to tell us to be sure to use the 7.5 there must have been a time he got burned on the 8.8s.


.

Nowak1981

I'm hoping the book will have dimensions and spine counts, something more specific then part numbers. Let's hope the book as actually useful.

tbone heller

After removing the inner tripod joint & boot, remove the outer boot. Place the axle shaft with outer c/v joint attached into a 3 foot section of 2" diameter steel pipe. With one hand on the outer c/v splines & the other on the pipe (be sure that the pipe is in contact with the outer c/v joint). slam the open end of the pipe against the concrete. The axle shaft will fall right out. You're welcome. LOL!!

charchri4

LOL Tbone you rock! Great info man.

It's been over a year now but I don't remember having any trouble. In fact I remembered thinking wow this is all that holds this together? As I recall I just put the shaft in the vice and knocked it off with a good smack of the hammer. I have to think after a few try's you probably hit it as hard as I did though.

MX-Brad

Man, I'm glad I bought Martins complete 7.5 rearend kit with axles. That all sounds like a PIA.

charchri4

I don't want to make Gabriel feel bad but it really wasn't a PITA for me. I did mine and changed both inner and outer tie rod ends on my steering rack on a week night so less than 3 hours.

I remember the tie rod part of the night well because the book said the inner tie rods should only be done by a qualified Mazda technician. So I ripped the Mazda logo off the front of the car, taped it to my shirt and voilà instant qualified Mazda technician!

Those were good days in the build for sure.

Gabriel

Yep, that's exactly how I did it... because that's the way the monster miata manual says to do it.... the one side i banged on the floor for about 5 minutes and it came out (retainer clip shattered), the second shaft i banged for over an hour and a half, my hands and arms hurt for the next day, and there's a hole in my concrete floor.... and of course, it also came out with the retainer clip shattered.... that was the biggest PITA of the entire project...

once out i studied the inner side of the CV joint where the retainer clip would bind, and it's not beveled at all... IMHO there is absolutely no way that clip could have ever compressed itself back inside the grove... i don't know if parts have slightly changed since you did it? but mine was next to impossible to take appart, and again, the clip shattered inside, on BOTH my shafts, so i had to take the entire CV apart clean it and repack...

Nowak1981

I lol'd


On a sader note....

Napa does not have paper catalogs for cv axles.......... ...........

..........


And I work at the distribution center......... .........


.......


I miss the good ol days when you had the option of going through an entire isle of tech manuals to find a part....


I have another ace up my sleeve though...

I can try another couple stores I know for a catalog, or I know of an actual axle shop. That's all they do is axles. Surely they have a catalog...


Prolly be next week before I get to it though, I have to work again tonight.

cvx_20

If you find anything on CV's or axle bars, I'd sure like to see it.

This site:

Super Coupe Club of America

has some interesting manufacturer's specs.

Usually at about page 10, of the 91-93 model years, you can see some specifics of the axles. If you sift thru it, you can see that the 7.5 has smaller cv's than the 8.8. Rzeppa C2650 vs Rzeppa C4000. From the factory. You can also see the difference in axle length between 7.5 and 8.8, is less than 1/2", which could conceivably be compensated for by the plunge.

I'd be willing to bet that as the demand for these model specific axles declines, the aftermarket is supplying a one size fits all version, and that version has the smaller cv's.

Mike

charchri4

Bummer on the manual. No big deal though just use 7.5 axles. No matter if they are the same as 8.8 or not you are covered then and I know mine and Gabriels are 7.5 axles in an 8.8 diff.

Nowak1981

That's good to know. I stopped by that axle shop yesterday, kind of a waste, the guy barely knew what i was taking about. I guess they just specialize in driveshafts. He said he doesn't do much with cv axles excpet rebuilding them occasionally.

On the other hand, it was a nifty shop, lots of customer parts lying around, a lot of them look pretty well made. I'll prolly have to stop back again when it's time build the driveshaft...

charchri4

You need to look for a machine or axle shop not a drive shaft shop. There is a shop in Sioux Falls that can do it but when I did the zillion hours of research on the matter it was clear it made no sense to reinvent the wheel. Martins stuff is good stuff that is competitively priced and you know will work. For me knowing it would work out of the box was reason enough to use his stuff. All you need is the shafts, spacers and hub exchange from him and a set of 7.5 tbird axles and you are in business.

Gabriel

That is correct, here's the part number from my rockauto purchase,




A-1 CARDONE

602023 (60-2023)

CV Half Shaft Assembly (8708.50.8900)

CAD$ 49.94

CAD$ 21.81

2

CAD$ 143.50

Nowak1981

What are the spacers you are referring to Jim?