5.0 Miata

I'm in the process of getting the front accessories installed and functioning. I have a reverse rotation water pump. I do not have a smog pump or AC. The only pulleys I have are the Alt, water pump and crank. (power steering runs off a separate pulley and belt) I don't really want to put in an idler pulley so I was wondering what is involved in changing my setup to a clockwise rotation water pump. Do I have to change out the timing change cover as well?

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom, this place rocks!

Den

Casey

I do not have any good photos but I'm also running only an alternator and water pump off the crank in the same configuration as your second picture. I did not change the timing cover- I think they are all the same from '87-'93 regardless of water pump rotation.

Also, I am using a smooth water pump pulley without issue.

5.0 Miata

Thanks Casey, what year is your motor? Did you have to change out the water pump for a clockwise rotation pump? I have heard that some of the clockwise rotation pumps need some changes to the backing plate and pulley, did you have to do any of that? And you are running the ribbed belt on the smooth water pump pulley without any issues? Does anyone else see any issues with doing this, I would think the ribs might get prematurely worn.

Thanks again, Den

Casey

My engine has an '87 casting but I don't think that means much. It could be originally from an '87-'93. I am using a clock-wise water pump. I'm not sure what you mean by backing plate but I did not need to make any changes to the pulley. The ribbed belt is running on the smooth pulley- it hasn't caused an issue for me.

MX-Brad

Are you using fox body brackets, wp and alt or SN95? If running the shorter SN95, you'll need a dummy pulley to keep the wp ccw. I'm not aware of a regular cw rotion wp for the SN95 but don't know what's available for the foxbody.
Good luck with build.

5.0 Miata

Thanks Brad, I have a 93 Fox body setup but no A/C or smog crap. I have found on another forum that the water pump from a 89 Crown Vic 5.0 is a direct bolt on CW replacement for the standard CCW rotation pump.

Congrats on the start up, you're gonna have some fun now! Hope you saved up enough for another set of rubber, with that evil smile I don't think they will last long...

Den

5.0 Miata

Well, the Crown Vic water pump was not the answer. It does not fit the timing chain cover at all. Looks like I am going to have to go with the original CCW rotation and install an idler pulley, damn!

Den

Casey

If you go on NAPA's website and search for water pumps for a 1993 Mustang GT the results include both clockwise and counter-clockwise pumps. That's how I got mine.

5.0 Miata

Hey Casey, you're right. Both directions listed, thanks...

Den

MRM331

My second build has the clockwise water pump on it with a smooth pulley. It's had no issues to date. I highly recommend this over using a delete pulley.

-Jason

movieboy4fun

I have a 88 roller block in my race car, (79 stang), with manual rack and I just used the front cover off of the 79 block and ordered a water pump for a 83 Capri manual rack, standard rotation. Just used smooth pump pulley as MRM331 suggests, been flawless and I no longer throw V-belts at 8000 RPM and a 300hp hit of juice.

Dean0

barrattboy72

Maybe its wrong but the set up I am using:
Stock (ccw rotation) remaned water pump
Crank pulley
alternator with billet bracket that has a tensioner.

with this set up I don't need a tensioner and the belt is run properly with the smooth side on the smooth WP pulley.

......Again, I have not run the car yet but in my head it makes sense.

5.0 Miata

BBoy, are you running any other accessories, ie: AC, Smog? Do you have a pic you can post?

Thanks,
Den

5.0 Miata

So, I have my motor up and running and I'm experiencing some overheating issues. The temp just keeps rising fairly quickly, probably takes about 4-5 minutes to get it from cold to 250.

The top rad hose is hot so I believe that tells me the thermostat is okay. The cooling fans, mounted in front of the rad are coming on at 185 and are pushing air through the rad. The rad is hot, except for where the fans are. I think I'm not getting proper circulation which leads back to the water pump rotation. I double checked and it is a clockwise rotation water pump and the engine turns clockwise.

Is there any way to check to see if the coolant is circulating? I've burped it several times so I don't think it's an air pocket. I even tried to take it around the block to see if the temp would still rise and half a block later up to 250. So I turned around and got it back into the garage. Anything else that I can check?

Thanks,
Den

movieboy4fun

5.0 Miata

A pic of setup would really help. What water pump are you using, what front cover? I know my F0RD's very well and can help. Even part numbers would help. I know F0RD did run some of the CCW pumps CW from the factory but not in a HO setup. Bit more info please on current setup.

Thanks
Dean0 ( Kelowna )

V8MiataMike

If the upper hose and radiator are hot, there is circulation. Compare the temp of the upper hose to the lower hose (without getting hurt!). Flow should be from the upper hose into the radiator to the lower and back into the engine.

If the lower is hotter than the upper, it is reverse flowing.

If you had the cylinder heads off and put new gaskets on, do you know if the head gasket were installed with "front" correctly aligned? The gaskets have restrictive holes in them to make water flow to the back of the block toward the front.

5.0 Miata

Thanks guys, here is a couple pics of my setup. The part number for the WP is 55-23121 which should be a clockwise rotation I believe. This is the motor I put in.

347 Ford Stroker 415 HP 410 Torque Street | Performance Crate Engines | Tri Star Engines & Transmission

It was dyno-tuned so I'm pretty sure they would have caught the overheating.

I'm now having other issues, can't seem to keep it running. Apparently my gas gauge does work and I had no gas and ran it dry. Went and got some gas and now I can't seem to keep it running. Seems very rich, strong smell of gas. Something with the EZ EFI that I will have to trace down now. Ugh, I wanted so much to be driving it!

Thanks,
Den

movieboy4fun

5.0 Miata
Thanks for the pics, from what I can tell you have the right timing cover for CW rotation as I can just see the Fuel Pump block off plate in the second picture, so all good there.

I can't verify that the pump you have is a standard rotation or one of F0RD's oddball reverse flow impellers on a standard rotation pump. I looked at pics and still unsure, F0RD and their water pumps. Below I could verify the following:

Cardone 55-23121 for 90 Country Squire 5.0, CURRENT PUMP
3 3/16 impeller size but flat back cover plate so NON-HO, impeller Rotation Unsure could not verify, all new pump to my knowledge base, lol.

Cardone 55-23150 for 83 Mustang 5.0 Manual steering
3 3/16 impeller, hump in backer plate so taller impeller, standard rotation ( verified I use this part in my race car CW rotation).

Gates 43264 for 82 Mustang 5.0 / L4 HD SSV SPEC.
3 1/2 impeller, taller hump in backer plate even taller impeller, standard rotation ( verified use in my tow vehicle). High Flow/ Rough Service

I know for a fact the lower two pumps will work with your cover, just not sure with the pump you choose, it is one I don't know, F0RD has so many. Cardone used to make a 55-23150H which was the same 3.5 inch impeller Gates but I don't see a listing any more. 347 with Al heads will make some heat, I would recommend trying the high flow Gates pump. Not sure on the snout depth as again I didn't see that spec for your current setup. Is it shorter like the 94 / 95 set up?

If you pull the pump, take the impeller cover off and verify it is a CW (standard), rotation pump. Turn the front CW and the flats of the impeller should be pushing, not appearing to cut and direct the flow to the center as some folks mistakenly think.

V8MiataMike's test for flow direction of the pump is great advice, Top warmer than Bottom is correct, Possibly try your setup with out the Tstat installed before you pull the pump and verify the flow direction, I have had them bad right from new.

Also with a 347 compression builds fast, are you running good fresh fuel, My 67/ 10.7 comp 289 HP engine always runs hot that first trip to fill with Chevron 94 after sitting the winter. Possibly your fuel controller is running you lean making heat, do you have a AFR gauge, was the ECM programmed on a dyno first and still needs some real world driving / tuning yet?

all the best of luck on finding the issue

Dean0

5.0 Miata

Wow Dean0, thanks for the info. The front cover is a 93. I can't remember but, if I pull the lower rad hose, can I shine a flashlight and see the impeller blades?

Yes I put in 5 gallons of good old Chevron 94. I did manage to get it started, lots of black crap came out and seems to run okay. They did the initial setup at the shop but your right it needs to do some more learning. AF ratio seems to be hunting, learning comes on at 140 degrees, so there isn't much time for it to learn before I have to shut it down.

Thanks again,
Den

movieboy4fun

If you can get your head in there to see up the outlet port you can maybe just catch the far edge of the impeller. I am holding the 83 Mustang pump in my hands and can say, Good Luck. It is very hard to see which is the flat side when I am holding it, lol. Yours may be different. Also did you say 93 cover, I can see a Fuel Pump block off plate on the cover. If its a 93 cover that it would be reverse rotation, but why the FP block off plate??





Dean0

barrattboy72

I am confused. I thought the 5.0 90-93 water pump is counter clock wise.

movieboy4fun

347 Ford Stroker 415 HP 410 Torque Street | Performance Crate Engines | Tri Star Engines & Transmission
if this was the engine you ordered, you had the choice of front cover. It gives you four options, two options have a Mechanical Fuel Pump port and both are STANDARD CW rotation cases, just L or R hose inlet, which option did you choose?

Thanks
Dean0

5.0 Miata

I found a pic of the front cover before the WP and it looks like a standard rotation front cover. Now I just have to confirm that the WP is standard rotation as well...

Thanks,
Den

5.0 Miata

I took the lower rad hose off and I cannot see the impellers. I did find PW1406 stamped on the top of the water pump. I don't think this is a part number as I tried a search and can't find anything. So I guess the pump comes out tonight...

tbone heller

Are you using the plate between the pump & cover?