LS1 V8 Miata oil pans - the good the bad and the ugly
03-01-2013, 01:33 PM
#1
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
LS1 V8 Miata oil pans - the good the bad and the ugly
I’m on a mission to find the best (read that cheapest) pan for an LS1 conversion. The price of the V8R pan is really hard to justify but thanks to natepartlan and google I know these pans exist:
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/..._pan_views.pdf
Mast Motorsports LS Conversion Cast Oil Pan [401-111] (free shipping here)
Holley Performance Products GM LS Retro-fit Oil Pan - 1955-87 GM/Muscle Car/Classic Car/Trucks-302-1
Autokraft.org- |- Autokraft Race Cars and Restorations- |- Eau Claire, WI
V8R steel pan (what I am running)
http://www.v8roadsters.com/remote-filter-cooler/
V8R aluminum pan
http://www.v8roadsters.com/screw-on-filter-1/
Update 1/2015. Flyin Miata is no longer selling the V8R steel and Aluminum pan they are using the Moroso pan now.
https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata-v8-oil-pan.html
Update 3/2015. As of early 2014 Holley has a new pan out that that is quite a bit shallower than the 302-1 listed above ^. The new pan is 302-2. https://www.holley.com/products/acce...ns/parts/302-2
Update 6/2015. This has got to be the deal of the century on oil pans!
http://store.speedmaster79.com/c-193...rm=LS1 oil pan
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/..._pan_views.pdf
Mast Motorsports LS Conversion Cast Oil Pan [401-111] (free shipping here)
Holley Performance Products GM LS Retro-fit Oil Pan - 1955-87 GM/Muscle Car/Classic Car/Trucks-302-1
Autokraft.org- |- Autokraft Race Cars and Restorations- |- Eau Claire, WI
V8R steel pan (what I am running)
http://www.v8roadsters.com/remote-filter-cooler/
V8R aluminum pan
http://www.v8roadsters.com/screw-on-filter-1/
Update 1/2015. Flyin Miata is no longer selling the V8R steel and Aluminum pan they are using the Moroso pan now.
https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata-v8-oil-pan.html
Update 3/2015. As of early 2014 Holley has a new pan out that that is quite a bit shallower than the 302-1 listed above ^. The new pan is 302-2. https://www.holley.com/products/acce...ns/parts/302-2
Update 6/2015. This has got to be the deal of the century on oil pans!
http://store.speedmaster79.com/c-193...rm=LS1 oil pan
Last edited by charchri4; 06-18-2015 at 09:03 AM.
03-07-2013, 08:21 AM
#2
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
I've been chatting with a few folks on LS pans and lots of facts and opinions on what will and will not work.
On the Mast pan:
Jeremy at Flyin Miata told me they tried the Mast pan and it would not fit however Vettedrmr said he using one successfully with a V8R frame but no photos of it. Martin of Monster Miata says he has built a few LS cars using the Mast pan with his subframe.
On the Holly pan:
V8R said wouldn't work. The 1.71 depth in the front needs to be closer to 0.75. Jeremy at FM says no way will the Holley pan either it's huge.
On the Autocraft pan:
Jeremy at FM said they had not tried the Autocraft pan. I talked to Keith at autocraft and sent him a truck load of photos and specs. He feels it would work but is concerned about the front depth. He thinks his might be about a 1/4 deeper where the steering rack is. He said he would let me return the pan if as long as I don't put oil in it.
On the Kevko steel F body pan is the same depth at the front as the V8R pan: http://www.kevko.net/wetsump_chevy.htm
But the oil lines point straight to the headers so you decide...
On the Mast pan:
Jeremy at Flyin Miata told me they tried the Mast pan and it would not fit however Vettedrmr said he using one successfully with a V8R frame but no photos of it. Martin of Monster Miata says he has built a few LS cars using the Mast pan with his subframe.
On the Holly pan:
V8R said wouldn't work. The 1.71 depth in the front needs to be closer to 0.75. Jeremy at FM says no way will the Holley pan either it's huge.
On the Autocraft pan:
Jeremy at FM said they had not tried the Autocraft pan. I talked to Keith at autocraft and sent him a truck load of photos and specs. He feels it would work but is concerned about the front depth. He thinks his might be about a 1/4 deeper where the steering rack is. He said he would let me return the pan if as long as I don't put oil in it.
On the Kevko steel F body pan is the same depth at the front as the V8R pan: http://www.kevko.net/wetsump_chevy.htm
But the oil lines point straight to the headers so you decide...
Last edited by charchri4; 06-18-2015 at 09:12 AM.
03-07-2013, 10:33 AM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Jim, I don't have a lot of photos, but did save some. Hope they help. -Ray
New F-Body oil pan
Here's some shots of where I cut out the pan (sorry, no measurements)
Its important to note the leading edge of the front cut has the indentation for the connecting rod.
Since the oil pan is an integral structural member of the engine; welding on it tends to distort it (not good). I ended up bolting the pan to a piece of 3/4" flat stock steel and taking it to a local welding shop specializing in tig/aluminum welding. They welded two pieces of 3/16" aluminum. When the pan was unbolted from the steel plate it was good to go (lucked out... didn't get distorted). Also had to tweak the pick up tube, so it wouldn't hit the bottom of the pan. Keep in mind these photos are without the pan gasket in place. Good luck, let me know if you any questions.
one more pic
New F-Body oil pan
Here's some shots of where I cut out the pan (sorry, no measurements)
Its important to note the leading edge of the front cut has the indentation for the connecting rod.
Since the oil pan is an integral structural member of the engine; welding on it tends to distort it (not good). I ended up bolting the pan to a piece of 3/4" flat stock steel and taking it to a local welding shop specializing in tig/aluminum welding. They welded two pieces of 3/16" aluminum. When the pan was unbolted from the steel plate it was good to go (lucked out... didn't get distorted). Also had to tweak the pick up tube, so it wouldn't hit the bottom of the pan. Keep in mind these photos are without the pan gasket in place. Good luck, let me know if you any questions.
one more pic
03-07-2013, 03:54 PM
#4
Moderator
At 525 for a V8R steel pan, is it worth cutting up a 250 dollar pan that you can never be positive won't leak after spending 100 to have it welded and several hours in fab time?
03-07-2013, 04:58 PM
#5
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
I have a good 02 F body pan that would be worth about $100 on LS1tech so that brings all the numbers down. So if I went F body mod I would be about 200 after welding. (Good welding is cheap and everywhere where I am at) Still the thought of pulling the engine to fix a leak is not high on my list of happy days...
I really don't know what to do on this but seeing Rays photos above really puts a positive light welding and F body pan. I'm going to have ask him a bit more about how he did that.
Last edited by charchri4; 03-07-2013 at 05:02 PM.
03-07-2013, 08:30 PM
#6
Moderator
I sold my F-body pan for 200 IIRC. After adding it, cutting and welding, and the improved racing baffle, it was only 50 more for the V8R pan. You can also get a Mr. Gasket remote filter kit for 30 from Jegs.
03-10-2013, 10:19 AM
#7
V8 Miata Participant
Here's a thought: Move the motor back enough so you can use the stock F-body pan. Obviously this requires mods to the firewall, but you already have to modify the firewall/tunnel. This also gives more clearance at the front for the sway bar and the fans, and slightly more clearance at the steering shaft for headers. And improved weight distribution.
If you already have the V8R subframe, I think you could accomplish the move with different motor mount plates. And bodywork skills.
Mike
If you already have the V8R subframe, I think you could accomplish the move with different motor mount plates. And bodywork skills.
Mike
03-10-2013, 10:42 AM
#8
Moderator
Here's a thought: Move the motor back enough so you can use the stock F-body pan. Obviously this requires mods to the firewall, but you already have to modify the firewall/tunnel. This also gives more clearance at the front for the sway bar and the fans, and slightly more clearance at the steering shaft for headers. And improved weight distribution.
If you already have the V8R subframe, I think you could accomplish the move with different motor mount plates. And bodywork skills.
Mike
If you already have the V8R subframe, I think you could accomplish the move with different motor mount plates. And bodywork skills.
Mike
03-11-2013, 01:31 PM
#9
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
I found the perfect solution!!
LS V8R Steel Oil Pan (with revised pickup and pan bolts) $515
Torques Billet Aluminum remote oil filter, multi-position $69
Wix oil filter $7.95
10ft -10AN push-lock hose high pressure, black, flame resistant $24
1 90 degree -10 AN push lock fitting $17
3 straight -10 An push lock fittings $27
All the above never installed won on ebay for $363 shipped.
LS Racing Oil Pan Trap Doors Kevko LS V8R 7qt Miata V8 Roadsters Drift V8 Swap | eBay
Today was a very good day in my build!
LS V8R Steel Oil Pan (with revised pickup and pan bolts) $515
Torques Billet Aluminum remote oil filter, multi-position $69
Wix oil filter $7.95
10ft -10AN push-lock hose high pressure, black, flame resistant $24
1 90 degree -10 AN push lock fitting $17
3 straight -10 An push lock fittings $27
All the above never installed won on ebay for $363 shipped.
LS Racing Oil Pan Trap Doors Kevko LS V8R 7qt Miata V8 Roadsters Drift V8 Swap | eBay
Today was a very good day in my build!
Last edited by charchri4; 11-26-2014 at 11:57 AM.
03-11-2013, 09:26 PM
#10
V8 Miata Fanatic
Great find! Never would have thought that a new V8R Miata oil pan would pop up on eBay any time soon. Good for you. So..., where do you think you'll mount that remote filter?! This is going to be nice change of pace... I think every swap I've seen (on the internet) have had the alum pan with normal filter location.
03-11-2013, 09:38 PM
#11
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
Oh yeah craigs list and ebay are my staples!
The Flyin Miata targa build they used this pan and put it in the drivers fender well on the frame rail right behind the bumper. That is probably about as good of place as any but till I get the engine in I have no idea. The good news is with this pan situation buttoned up I can now order my V8R engine kit. It's wonderful to get that settled!!
The Flyin Miata targa build they used this pan and put it in the drivers fender well on the frame rail right behind the bumper. That is probably about as good of place as any but till I get the engine in I have no idea. The good news is with this pan situation buttoned up I can now order my V8R engine kit. It's wonderful to get that settled!!
05-29-2013, 09:36 AM
#16
Thank you.
Jim,
Based on what you were able to measure and from what we've seen on here and m.net, do you think the mast or autokraft pans will fit?
It looks like there is quite a bit of clearance between your rack and your pan.
vettedrvr on m.net has said that the mast pan will fit, and he also gave one decent picture. I am looking for other options as I do not want a remote filter, and I also do not want to pay $800 for an oil pan.
I've been planning this swap for three or so years, and I joined in 09 when this forum first opened as an offshoot of miataturbo.net.
Just now gathering parts... Oil pan is next on the list.
Thanks for the quick reply and pictures.
Based on what you were able to measure and from what we've seen on here and m.net, do you think the mast or autokraft pans will fit?
It looks like there is quite a bit of clearance between your rack and your pan.
vettedrvr on m.net has said that the mast pan will fit, and he also gave one decent picture. I am looking for other options as I do not want a remote filter, and I also do not want to pay $800 for an oil pan.
I've been planning this swap for three or so years, and I joined in 09 when this forum first opened as an offshoot of miataturbo.net.
Just now gathering parts... Oil pan is next on the list.
Thanks for the quick reply and pictures.
05-29-2013, 10:04 AM
#17
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
You're welcome. Always good to have another V8 Miata in the world! As you can see from this thread the $850 oil pan was a major show stopper for me too and I struggled with it for months.
The photos might be a bit deceiving. There is just enough room from the pan to the rack for the engine to sake on the mounts and that's about it. Look closer at the 2nd to the last photo and there is only about 1/8th of an inch there. Any thicker gasket on the pan and I would be in trouble!
Jeremy at Flyin Miata told me they tried the Mast pan and it would not fit so it is interesting to hear a report that it will. Autocraft said biased on the specs of the V8R pan they thought it would work. Jeremy at FM said they had not tried the Autocraft pan but thought it might work. He said to let him know if I tried it because they need a new supplier and a new pan.
Autocraft said they would let me return the pan as long as I did not put oil in it but they would not wave the restock fee even though I told them if it worked they would see a bump in sales on the pan. I didn't really want to roll the dice on it since there are pans I know will work. So with the Autocraft, Mast and Holly pan ruled out that left Kevko or cutting a stock pan.
In my situation price trumped the remote filter issue so my plan (before I found the ebay deal) was to go with the Kevko F pan because I knew it would work. When I talked to them they said they can't sell me the V8R pan but have another in the catalog that should work. I laughted and said should work or will work?? She said well they are about the same size but I can't tell you that... Looking at the specs their part number LSF 5” pan is nearly identical to what I am running and at $300 I felt was a viable solution. Granted you need a pick up and filter holder for another 105ish but still the cheapest solution out there. Last but not least they are made about 75 miles from me so I am a little biased toward Kevko…
So guess the long winded answer to your question is no...
The photos might be a bit deceiving. There is just enough room from the pan to the rack for the engine to sake on the mounts and that's about it. Look closer at the 2nd to the last photo and there is only about 1/8th of an inch there. Any thicker gasket on the pan and I would be in trouble!
Jeremy at Flyin Miata told me they tried the Mast pan and it would not fit so it is interesting to hear a report that it will. Autocraft said biased on the specs of the V8R pan they thought it would work. Jeremy at FM said they had not tried the Autocraft pan but thought it might work. He said to let him know if I tried it because they need a new supplier and a new pan.
Autocraft said they would let me return the pan as long as I did not put oil in it but they would not wave the restock fee even though I told them if it worked they would see a bump in sales on the pan. I didn't really want to roll the dice on it since there are pans I know will work. So with the Autocraft, Mast and Holly pan ruled out that left Kevko or cutting a stock pan.
In my situation price trumped the remote filter issue so my plan (before I found the ebay deal) was to go with the Kevko F pan because I knew it would work. When I talked to them they said they can't sell me the V8R pan but have another in the catalog that should work. I laughted and said should work or will work?? She said well they are about the same size but I can't tell you that... Looking at the specs their part number LSF 5” pan is nearly identical to what I am running and at $300 I felt was a viable solution. Granted you need a pick up and filter holder for another 105ish but still the cheapest solution out there. Last but not least they are made about 75 miles from me so I am a little biased toward Kevko…
So guess the long winded answer to your question is no...
Last edited by charchri4; 11-26-2014 at 11:27 AM.
05-30-2013, 05:41 PM
#18
Jim,
So by looking at the pictures, the front of your V8R specific Kevko pan above the steering rack measures 1 3/8" from the bottom of the pan to the mounting rail? Is this correct?
If so, buying another steel pan and cutting the front down still may be a cheaper option at this point.
Thanks again,
So by looking at the pictures, the front of your V8R specific Kevko pan above the steering rack measures 1 3/8" from the bottom of the pan to the mounting rail? Is this correct?
If so, buying another steel pan and cutting the front down still may be a cheaper option at this point.
Thanks again,
05-31-2013, 10:14 PM
#19
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
I think that is about right and it tapers down some at the front. I didn't actually pay any attention to what the tape said I just took the photos... ;-) I can double check things, measure specific areas or take more shots of you need them.
06-26-2013, 09:03 PM
#21
V8 Miata Fanatic
My V8R aluminum pan that's just recently arrived.
Made my measurements going from front to back to help give you a sense of overall depth from bottom edge of block to bottom edge of pan. Keep in mind that there is a GM oil pan gasket in between the two.
Using the oil pan bolt hole locations down the side of the block, here's what I have. I'll also give a reference point from this very front RH tab on the front corner of the block seen in the photo below with the green "pointer".
* at 1st bolt hole: 1-1/2"
* at 2nd bolt hole OR 5-1/2" from front reference point: 1-5/8"
* at 3rd bolt hole OR 9-3/4" from front reference point: 5"
** sump begins at 8-7/8" from front reference point.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the pan. It's a shame it won't be seen so much when it's hidden under the Miata...
Made my measurements going from front to back to help give you a sense of overall depth from bottom edge of block to bottom edge of pan. Keep in mind that there is a GM oil pan gasket in between the two.
Using the oil pan bolt hole locations down the side of the block, here's what I have. I'll also give a reference point from this very front RH tab on the front corner of the block seen in the photo below with the green "pointer".
* at 1st bolt hole: 1-1/2"
* at 2nd bolt hole OR 5-1/2" from front reference point: 1-5/8"
* at 3rd bolt hole OR 9-3/4" from front reference point: 5"
** sump begins at 8-7/8" from front reference point.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the pan. It's a shame it won't be seen so much when it's hidden under the Miata...
08-27-2013, 10:21 PM
#22
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I attempted to cut and weld my F body pan and it ended up warping about 1/4" over the whole length. I clamped it to a plate a annealed it at around 700 F but it didn't stay flat even after a few hours at temp. I then tried the same but with preload in the opposite direction of the bend and it cracked at the edge of the HAZ from welding.
Disappointed, I bought a kevko pan from V8R and was disappointed by the quality of the pan. It has about 1/8" of warp on one corner of the flange (but its steel so I just fixed it) and the pickup tube hit the pan because the weld bead was too big. Also the pan was full of metal shavings.
Pics later if anyone wants to see
Disappointed, I bought a kevko pan from V8R and was disappointed by the quality of the pan. It has about 1/8" of warp on one corner of the flange (but its steel so I just fixed it) and the pickup tube hit the pan because the weld bead was too big. Also the pan was full of metal shavings.
Pics later if anyone wants to see
08-28-2013, 04:33 AM
#23
Jim Stainer
Thread Starter
Wow sorry to hear about your experience. You should for sure let your vendor know. Kevko pans are made about 40 miles form me in a small town in Minnesota and it is a mighty fine bunch of folks that build them.
I have to tell you I never even thought about checking my Kevko steel pan to see if it was straight. I hung it on the engine and didn't notice any gaps, but I did it with the engine right side up and didn't really look either. It was clean inside and the pick up tube was in the perfect location about 3/8" from the bottom. So far I have about 600 miles on it with one autox and no problems at all.
Sure I would love to see photos and a build thread on your car.
I have to tell you I never even thought about checking my Kevko steel pan to see if it was straight. I hung it on the engine and didn't notice any gaps, but I did it with the engine right side up and didn't really look either. It was clean inside and the pick up tube was in the perfect location about 3/8" from the bottom. So far I have about 600 miles on it with one autox and no problems at all.
Sure I would love to see photos and a build thread on your car.
12-01-2014, 03:42 PM
#25
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Am confused about what is discussed here. It is not difficult to build a K-frame that allows the use of a stock F-body pan...& without any firewall mods.
