MX-Brad

Martin's manual indicates the use of JB Weld to attach the covers for the corner cuts to be satisfactory. Looking for first hand experiemce on this as my engine is coming out today hopefully and I may have time on the weekend to tackle the engine bay.
I don't weld (yet) and since these aren't structural peices, I thought the JB Weld might look cleaner - as long as it holds up long term. Does it crack or flake after a while? Takes paint OK?
My neighbour will weld the torque plate at his shop once I pull the rear subframe.

Sunshine Guy

I haven't done this yet, so this isn't first hand experience. However, this is what would make sense to me. Where ever the cover overlaps the cut-out area, if a series of small holes were drilled around that perimeter it would allow the JB weld to ooze through those holes and create "locking lugs" to ensure secure attachment.

My general past experience with JB Weld is it does a good job of remaining stable and holding up over the long run.

jrmotorsports55

It's pretty tough stuff. I plan on welding to the subframe, and jb welding to the firewall.

Jason

charchri4

The arm chair engineer in my has always puzzled as to why those cuts would not be structural. You are taking a cross corner gusset out of a 90 degree corner so how is that not structural? If you cut the gusset out of a shelf bracket you'd have a heck of a mess on the floor....


As for the parts that get cut out the way they are shaped in the corners is pretty strong. Put one in a vice and see how much HP it takes to crush it corner to corner. Yep did that... And even if it is not structural for the drive train taking them out won't help cowl shake one bit.

Now the good news is with a Ford build you really don't need to remove them. There is a number of 5.0s with them intact and you can still fit everything in the engine bay with them there. Dito with the drivers side of an LS.

IMO if you can't weld them I'd just leave them the way they are.

MRM331

I've glued all mine on but would not I the future if I build another. It just never looks good. On a semi-Martin build we re-engined a few years ago the original builder just cut them back to a radius as opposed to flat against the firewall. This looked much better and not in anyway non-oem. I'd do it that way if I were to again.

-Jason

MX-Brad

Hey Jason, do you have a pic or a drawing? I can't quite picture what you're describing.
Thanks.

Gabriel

I like the alternate suggestions by Jim and Jason... probably better options..

but if you are conventionally cutting the gussets out and adding the plate provided, my suggestion is weld.. it's hard to cut the gussets out so that the plate fits perfectly, and with welding you can build up a bit of metal inside the gaps neatly enough...

Thing is, i didn't weld before this project, i bought my welder for it, telling myself building the exhaust myself would pay for the welder... i watched many youtube videos on how to weld... had an avid welder friend come over one night and spend 30 minutes with me explaining how to manipulate the bead and settings show me a few tricks... I practices over and over on scrap pieces...

I ended up using the welder in so many instances on my build, even small things that I didn't show on my video series... thinking back, it would have been difficult to do everything without it... now I can weld, and I own a welder!

just my 2 c.

charchri4

+1 for the welder for sure. It may have been the most fun I had on the build and it was the first time I ever welded too. It's a super handy tool to have for it even if you sell it when you are done. I highly recommend buying, borrowing or renting a welder for the project.

I'm not following the lesser cuts Jason is talking about either. I went through my photos to try and see if I could figure it out but not really. Pix of mine before and after if it helps to visualize or explain what he is talking about.




I probably cut it more than I needed to.

MX-Brad

Ya, I'm intrigued by Jason's description.
Plan for a while has been to pick up the little HF 90a flux core welder. It looks like a handy little outfit. But I was wondering about the JB Weld more due to the aesthetics as I don't think I'd be able to pull off pretty welds in that area.
Jim, I don't see how it's possible to not cut those corners.

charchri4

That's what I thought to till I kept finding them with out the cuts. Maybe what I am seeing is just not cut all the way back or something. Hard to see in this one how far it goes.
https://www.v8miata.net/attachments/...606_074709-jpg

https://www.v8miata.net/attachments/...icture-049-jpg

Partial cut here for sure but it looks like it would still clear if it was all there.
https://www.v8miata.net/attachments/...0024-jpg?stc=1

I had a really good shot of white car with the corners in but can't find it now. Anyone in process want to do a test fit before you cut to see?

MX-Brad

Pretty clean cuts on yours Jim. Cut off disc on an angle grinder?

charchri4

99% sawzall and 1% $25 electric grinder with a cut off wheel.

I managed to bugger it all up with the welder though... give a kid a welder and the whole world needs welding!

MX-Brad

After studying Nathan's cuts on the Swaptastic site, I'm not sure the cover plates are needed.
I may end up just trying to do some clean cuts and a bit of grinding to clean things up. Then prime and paint.

charchri4

I still don't understand how those gussets are not structural to the frame rails going forward in the car. Any one who has not reinforced these notice any difference in their cowl shake after removing them?

MX-Brad

I started my engine bay cuts and I think I'm going to get the FM corner reinforcements.
Here's a pic. Do you guys think I will be able to weld these in without taking out the steering column? I'm a little concerned about the rubber bushing on the column where it goes through the firewall.

charchri4

No way it's totally in the way and only a couple bolts to pull it out anyway.

MX-Brad

Ya, I kinda resigned myself to having to pull it out. Was hoping not to, but I guess it won't be that tough.

Was reading up on how to remove the column. Apparently there is another u-joint under the dash. Anyone know if that can be loosened off the then the shaft simply pulled out of the firewall without having to pull the entire column out. I won't be able to work on the car for a few days but want to plan this out in my head in the meantime.

Meierznutz

Take the two bolts out under the dash, unplug the electrical connectors (If you haven't already) and the boot comes with the column. U-joint will still be attached.

MX-Brad

Cool. so i won't have to pull the wheel to un hook the horn or worry about the steering/ignition lock? Sounds simple.
Happy New Year everyone.

tbone heller

FYI, Don't let the steering wheel spin around in the column. Keep it centered, or you will destroy the clock spring.

MX-Brad

welded in my FM frame reinforcements today. What new tool do I need to buy to get into the corners to pretty up the welds (other than welding lessons)?
I tried a small grinder, a small sanding disc, and even a dremel with a grindstone attachment.....that was a waste of time. I want to smooth these out a bit, then I'll use a bed liner for texture and then prime and paint.

On another note.....I have a lot of respect for any of you guys who do GOOD welding. I can see it takes a lot of practice and patience to get good at that. Kudos.

tbone heller

Cover them with some seam sealer.

MX-Brad

Good plan. I also picked up a cheap die grinder today. Used it tonight to smooth my welds. Worked great. Need a little warmer weather to do the sealer and paint. Winter up here sucks. High of -10 today. Yes minus.

SupaDupaSteve

I've still got to weld in my reinforcements too. I'm going to wait till I've got the interior out for the harness and such. I'll do seam welding at the same time.